Who is Jesus of Nazareth?

[DH]

Hi Julia,

I appreciated your post on Jesus.

There's enough evidence from 1st century Roman and Jewish historians (that is, references beyond the Bible) that Jesus existed, but who he was as an historical person is buried under many layers of ancient traditions.  You can find many and varied pictures of him through the "orthodox" writings of the Bible, the ancient gnostic gospels, and the many "revelations" of him that have come down through today, such as in the Course of Miracles.  All of these traditions have flashes of inspiration from Spirit, but are filtered through the worldview and culturally influenced human prejudices of the writers.  But despite the variety of interpretations, I note that he still comes out basicallly the same:  as the one human who best reveals the nature of God/God-consciousness and the example for us on the path of life:  Self-giving love.

peace love hope, DH

[Mina-Laura]

Dear Julia,

He was a free Being.

Amin!

I don't really think I can ad anything else to this.





A free being.


Wow, I don't think anything can equal this. Total, unrestricted, true, freedom.


Thank you Julia.

love - Laura

[Baki Hanma]

Dear Baki Hanma,

I be so tired after the day is done that I cant even read myself to sleep anymore, I just simple pass out lol . And then I wake up and repeat the same routine.

That sounds all too familiar. Sleep - work - sleep and hopefully eat sometimes. It is what I refer to in my book as "The Human Paradox". The system gives you just enough to feed and refresh yourself so you can keep working for the system.

Just an observation. Of course it does not need to be that way - in fact "life" was never intended to be that way. Hopefully soon people can liberate themselves from the system.

In Love and Light,

Adrian.

I am trying to find ways to be more like you, in the sense where I can live my life without all these useless responsibilities. Problem is things are fast paced with me right now. Its not just simply working at a job, thats just one responisibilty and I dare not go into detail of all the other ones. Point is unless I just simply omit the world entirely and start over, I cant liberate myself.

[juliainkc]

Good Morning All,

Darrell, yes thank you for sharing here, it is all contained within I AM.

Hi Julia,

I appreciated your post on Jesus.

There's enough evidence from 1st century Roman and Jewish historians (that is, references beyond the Bible) that Jesus existed, but who he was as an historical person is buried under many layers of ancient traditions.  You can find many and varied pictures of him through the "orthodox" writings of the Bible, the ancient gnostic gospels, and the many "revelations" of him that have come down through today, such as in the Course of Miracles. 

All of these traditions have flashes of inspiration from Spirit, but are filtered through the worldview and culturally influenced human prejudices of the writers.  But despite the variety of interpretations, I note that he still comes out basicallly the same:  as the one human who best reveals the nature of God/God-consciousness and the example for us on the path of life:  Self-giving love.

peace love hope, DH

DH, I truly appreciate you sharing from your knowledge of these things and I always gain from your sharing here. I agree, about the culturally influenced human prejudices of the writers as well.

It is when our hearts and minds are in agreement with a 'thought' or a sensing and not so much 'seeing' the words on a page.

Sharing peace love hope with you.

Namaste.

Dear Julia,

Amin!

I don't really think I can ad anything else to this.





A free being.


Wow, I don't think anything can equal this. Total, unrestricted, true, freedom.


Thank you Julia.

love - Laura

Thank you Laura!!


Sending Love Energy your way today,

Julia

[juliainkc]

Hi Bakichan,

I am trying to find ways to be more like you, in the sense where I can live my life without all these useless responsibilities.

Problem is things are fast paced with me right now. Its not just simply working at a job, thats just one responisibilty and I dare not go into detail of all the other ones.

Point is unless I just simply omit the world entirely and start over, I cant liberate myself.

I understand what you are saying here. Seems that the more we strive or are trying real hard to reach for things the farther they can get away from us. You know life starts getting a little crazy!

I cannot say what will bring you to where you want or desire to be, it just seems for myself that when I was in the place of wanting to be someplace else, I noticed that my energy was divided and that is what seemed to keep me where I was thinking I did not want to be.

I began to realize that I was where I was meant to be in the moment and I am no longer where I once was yet am in the place I am to be in now. It naturally progressed along the more I accepted my current position as Divine placement and my energy and emotions changed along with each step. There is gold in the experience for me to take with me as I move into the next experience. It deepens and enriches my  full experience.

In other words, this very place you are in is where you are to be in this moment which isn't where you were 6 months ago or even a day ago. It doesn't mean you will always be in this place unless this is the dominant thought backed with emotion. And I don't see this in you at all. I see you are progressing.

I just felt this heart expression rising to greet you in this moment, thanks for your 'ear'.

My Love radiating your way today Bakichan,

Julia

[Talker]

Decades ago, while still looking for anything related to 'the life and times' of Jesus, I found that it was not a simple research project. From my early years, mention of 'Jesus' name, always called for a gentle 'bowing' of ones head. Walking past the front center door of a church, also called for a 'bowing' of the head. While in a church, was always in awe of the silence, aroma of lit candles, and a great feeling of 'all is well'. Surprisingly though not all churches give that certain feeling of awe, peace and reverence. (reasons for that is yet, another story) The point here, is that I still use that special feeling, of 'awe, peace and reverence'. to quickly relax, and enter 'my quite zone'.
Many little oddities started showing up while researching out 'the life and times' of Jesus'. The subject matter was rife with the 'pro and con' aspects, with each side presenting, seemingly valid arguments. For a person that so much is written on and about, seems that no one really knows much about the man called 'Jesus'. When a Google search is performed, one instance shows 212,000,000 hits. Reams of data about a person that even raises doubts about this persons existence. Now, excuse, how I say the next words here. How did a fair skinned man show up in a race of people that basically was not 'fair skinned, much less blue eyed'!

The facts are these (assuming Jesus actually existed, of course :

Jesus' skin was not white, it was a good healthy dark brown.
Jesus did not speak English.
It is extremely unlikely that Jesus had blonde hair or blue eyes.
God is not white, or a man - it is completely absurd to even try to describe a multi-dimensional, universe-spanning, spiritual being with those characteristics. How can God have skin? Why would he have a penis? What would he do with it? It makes no sense at all.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3958241.stm
http://everything2.com/e2node/Jesus%2520was%2520a%2520Gay%2520Black%2520Hippie%2520Jew

Well to cut a long story short, race and looks, are irrelevant, what really matters is 'do the words ascribed as being said by Jesus meaningful to you or not'!
(ignoring for now the controversy on the words used)
Factual historical evidence is hard to find. I can relate well to that. Tracing ones family genealogy, in modern times is still a difficult task even with the Web, computer, and birth and death records that are presently available, now consider what was available 2000 years ago.

Be Well

[juliainkc]

Greetings Everyone,

Another recent 'pop up' due to the book my friend sent me. She said in her love note that she had heard of this book and stayed away from it due to the first chapter which she found very difficult to read. Funny how life goes, someone 'gave' her the book for Christmas! I love it!! And then guess who else became 'privy' to this book I share about in the Relationships thread.

To all of you here, yes, those of you who think I am telling anyone what to believe, I say to you, you do not know me at all.

I am a free spirit and live my life on allowing all others to have and own ones own beliefs. Just ask my children, grandchildren, family and friends.

The way you are reflects what you believe. Who is first in this statement? Why me of course, I speak in first person. For myself only.

Can you hear me now?

I say this because, what I want for myself, I truly want for all others. To be allowed to believe what I believe and be able to express this in Julia fashion as you do in your own fashion. Just own up to yourself. Truly and drop the being offended.

On this note, my views of Jesus or Yeshua have changed dramatically. And for me another piece has fallen into place in this statement being attributed to this one we call 'Jesus'; a very controversial figure in the history of our history ...

On that day, you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you”. -- John 14:20

'If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

Philip ... (your 'name' here in agreement to this thought)  said to Him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.'

'Jesus' (as Daddy in human form)  said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, (your name) Philip? whom - ever (male or female, I, you, this or that) has seen the Father[/i]; how do you say, 'Show us the Father?” (John. 14:7-9)

In my language it defines; ... Translator Please!


From Genesis, In the beginning to what is being shared in the 'gospel' of John in the New Testament, 1st chapter ... all the way to the Revelation, where is the Father?...

Is there anywhere the possibility that 'Daddy' showed up? and we missed 'Him'?


Hmmm ...


What are your thoughts on this?

Love you all,

Julia


Streaming in open fashion to my question ... 'IF' 'Source, SuperConscious Mind is Formless' what 'form' could this SuperConscious Mind 'not' take? mmm ...

P.S. Jesus was not a 'Christian' Truth. Nor am I ...

[TheBaron]

Wow, lots of posts here again, sorry I darted out for a bit.  Now let me go against everything again and start all kinds of controversy as usual.

There's enough evidence from 1st century Roman and Jewish historians

Like whom?  There's less than a handful of accredited historians outside of the religion or scripture that actually refer to Jesus and all of those have been debunked by scholars. 

People talk about the best books to read, well I've spent most of my "professional" career studying energy work and the bible, in specific, Jesus.  If you'd like to read a compilation of those works I wrote a book about it, with references of course.

I tend to refrain from the Jesus debate as much as possible because it's too easy to point out all of the obvious err and no one is ever happy you did so, they just point and call you anti-Christ.  Well, perhaps I am and perhaps you should be too. 

Of course I am not disputing the "spiritual ramifications" of the "jesus figure" that anyone who can't prove his historical authenticity turn the debate to.  But I could write a book about anyone that taught moral lessons and it would be revered.  That is all I'll say about that.

As for my book, I have offered it many times already, and if you'd like to read it, then debate with me about it, good. 

https://share.acrobat.com/adc/adc.do?docid=5e52db16-dc19-40d7-99dc-fd745638c6bd

No offense, but I don't feel like rewriting my book here and my thoughts are better organized for your benefit.  Plus it's a free read, so why not?

In the years I have spent searching for the truth, I have dedicated most of my time pointing out what is not the truth.  That is the 'truth' of matters.  Most people fear the not truth more than the truth and that is why they have a hard time accepting things.  But, if Jesus is not real, what does that mean for you?

Nothing.  You're still spiritually open and now you're religiously free from the tyranny of organized religion.  Why is that a bad thing?  Any form of 'control' is tyranny and man flourishes in the wild.  It's no different than the mind being controlled by the Governments and Corporations.

Namaste,
The Baron B
advocatus diaboli

P.S. I still love you Laura and I'm awaiting my reprimand 

[DH]

Hey Barron,

Well of course there is always room to debate and hopefully be open-minded.

You have put a lot of thought and hard work into your book which I can appreciate and applaud, but it seems to assume that all Christians are either conservative Roman Catholic or Protestant fundamentalists.  Many people who see themselves as Christians would agree with much of what you have written about the Bible and your attitude toward fundamentalists.

As far as the historicity of Jesus:

          Flavius Josephus - c90CE  (He's hard to tap dance around since he lived in the same century and is known as one of the   
                                               greatest historians of that period.)

          Suetonius - c120CE

          Tactitus - 110CE

Not all credible scholars agree that these historians have been debunked.  Over the past 30 years, I've noticed that these sources are rabidly refuted by those who not only seem bound and determined to sink the Christian religion but also have a need to somehow prove that Jesus never existed.  The people I personally know who share these attitudes are motivated by the fact that they have been burned by some church or self-righteous people claiming to be true believers.  They seem to have an ax to grind.

The fact is, these sources still exist and will always be open to interpretation one way or the other.  There's no way to prove or disprove his existence to the satisfaction of all.

I'm not excited about the religion that has come to be known as Christianity nor the corrupted text of the Bible; but I too have studied a variety of material on these subjects, and it's not a stretch for me to appreciate the historical teacher Jesus and the core of his teaching about love.  It reverberates with other great spiritual teachers of the past (and present). Many of the non-canonical texts, like the Gospel of Thomas, also have some teachings of Jesus that are more in line with Buddhist philosophy than the orthodox Christian theology that developed in the 2nd and 3rd centuries CE.  Today many do see Jesus as one who has now become an Ascended Master.  But again, it's all very subjective and can't be proved or disproved.

In the spirit of open-mindedness, DH

Wow, lots of posts here again, sorry I darted out for a bit.  Now let me go against everything again and start all kinds of controversy as usual.

There's enough evidence from 1st century Roman and Jewish historians

Like whom?  There's less than a handful of accredited historians outside of the religion or scripture that actually refer to Jesus and all of those have been debunked by scholars. 

People talk about the best books to read, well I've spent most of my "professional" career studying energy work and the bible, in specific, Jesus.  If you'd like to read a compilation of those works I wrote a book about it, with references of course.

I tend to refrain from the Jesus debate as much as possible because it's too easy to point out all of the obvious err and no one is ever happy you did so, they just point and call you anti-Christ.  Well, perhaps I am and perhaps you should be too. 

Of course I am not disputing the "spiritual ramifications" of the "jesus figure" that anyone who can't prove his historical authenticity turn the debate to.  But I could write a book about anyone that taught moral lessons and it would be revered.  That is all I'll say about that.

As for my book, I have offered it many times already, and if you'd like to read it, then debate with me about it, good. 

https://share.acrobat.com/adc/adc.do?docid=5e52db16-dc19-40d7-99dc-fd745638c6bd

No offense, but I don't feel like rewriting my book here and my thoughts are better organized for your benefit.  Plus it's a free read, so why not?

In the years I have spent searching for the truth, I have dedicated most of my time pointing out what is not the truth.  That is the 'truth' of matters.  Most people fear the not truth more than the truth and that is why they have a hard time accepting things.  But, if Jesus is not real, what does that mean for you?

Nothing.  You're still spiritually open and now you're religiously free from the tyranny of organized religion.  Why is that a bad thing?  Any form of 'control' is tyranny and man flourishes in the wild.  It's no different than the mind being controlled by the Governments and Corporations.

Namaste,
The Baron B
advocatus diaboli

P.S. I still love you Laura and I'm awaiting my reprimand 

[Mina-Laura]

Dear Brandon,

P.S. I still love you Laura and I'm awaiting my reprimand 

I see that you fear me - Good!!  ..lol.. The only reprimand that I can give you is none, however I can tell you my honest opinion that you are young and fast to draw conclusions, and debate upon the 'solidity' of your leanings. And doing this in a feisty way you miss reading and seeing the whole context.

I think every definite conclusion is biased in itself. There is no such thing as definite, certain fact (historical or none). We live in a multidimensional Universe with realities intersecting and shifting at point consciousness in the Matrix. Is like the historical facts from here you come may not be the same with the ones from where I am and at the same time we may traverse many realities. For instance I used to be firm convinced and I swear to you I have the image of my biology text books and clips from almanacs that Elephants live about 300 years and Eagles 900... to my greatest consternation to find out that is not so (at some point) and other things/examples as such. If you read Adrian's reality Matrix you will understand how this is happening, however at my end sometimes I sense the shift is like a whoosh... sometimes I just see that people I know well are different. 

So I have no idea who Jesus was in your seed start Universe. It may be different from DH experience and/or mine. That He is a 'presence' I can tell you for sure as at some point in my life it was with me, not so much as of late as it left the imprint in me - or Christ consciousness, in some ways I feel as I have grown enough to not need to much babysitting.

Anyway .. the point is words of wisdom that Julia sent me the other night this clause is number 22 - ask her for a transcript

In time you will realise that there's no solidity in anything. Respect everyone opinion as we don't know anything ad factum. If you want to live in only one Matrix than be solid, you cast your world according to the strength of your firm beliefs. I prefer it much more to be fluid ... shape shifter... cast my focus with caution as I know for sure it will be my reality. 



Brandon I know you love me   likewise... and very much so! perhaps much more than you can possibly imagine.

love

[Mina-Laura]

Dear Julia,

Greetings Everyone,

Another recent 'pop up' due to the book my friend sent me. She said in her love note that she had heard of this book and stayed away from it due to the first chapter which she found very difficult to read. Funny how life goes, someone 'gave' her the book for Christmas! I love it!! And then guess who else became 'privy' to this book I share about in the Relationships thread.

To all of you here, yes, those of you who think I am telling anyone what to believe, I say to you, you do not know me at all.

I am a free spirit and live my life on allowing all others to have and own ones own beliefs. Just ask my children, grandchildren, family and friends.

The way you are reflects what you believe. Who is first in this statement? Why me of course, I speak in first person. For myself only.

Can you hear me now?

I say this because, what I want for myself, I truly want for all others. To be allowed to believe what I believe and be able to express this in Julia fashion as you do in your own fashion. Just own up to yourself. Truly and drop the being offended.

On this note, my views of Jesus or Yeshua have changed dramatically. And for me another piece has fallen into place in this statement being attributed to this one we call 'Jesus'; a very controversial figure in the history of our history ...

On that day, you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you”. -- John 14:20

'If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

Philip ... (your 'name' here in agreement to this thought)  said to Him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.'

'Jesus' (as Daddy in human form)  said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, (your name) Philip? whom - ever (male or female, I, you, this or that) has seen the Father[/i]; how do you say, 'Show us the Father?” (John. 14:7-9)

In my language it defines; ... Translator Please!


From Genesis, In the beginning to what is being shared in the 'gospel' of John in the New Testament, 1st chapter ... all the way to the Revelation, where is the Father?...

Is there anywhere the possibility that 'Daddy' showed up? and we missed 'Him'?


Hmmm ...


What are your thoughts on this?

Love you all,

Julia


Streaming in open fashion to my question ... 'IF' 'Source, SuperConscious Mind is Formless' what 'form' could this SuperConscious Mind 'not' take? mmm ...

P.S. Jesus was not a 'Christian' Truth. Nor am I ...

Julia dear I wanted to write a long disertation but what's the point?? Instead I will share a song I love.

The mamas and the papas - California dreamin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wI6uAOHzvo






love

[juliainkc]

What an interesting range of thoughts being shared here. Diversity for others to view. I appreciate you Brandon, DH and Laura for your willingness to open up and share your thoughts out loud along with my observations and musings. In the mix.

Wasn't my intention to create a debate really. Just revealing something in my own progression of going through this process called our lives.

We who have participated here have been exposed to the institutions and systems we are all apart of in the moment.

Brandon, you mentioned awhile ago you came from a 'church' background. I did too. Which is why I questioned it so much. The words just did not seem to match the relationship 'message' at all. I have walked away from the church twice in my life and the last time I did, I was truly done with it. Because I just did not see how the church was helping anyone. It seemed to make matters worse. Even as a child I recall the shock of hearing about a God who created people to kill them. Something wasn't adding up.

In a sense it did create a 'splinter' in me. A desire while deeply buried still there. Where did this idea of believing in a God come from anyway?

So, out of the church system and institution and on a path like Solomon in the bible of being open to other ways of 'God' knowing. And to be honest, what I have found is a different colored approach to the same system and institution. So where do I go from here?

No where. Just here and then in true Divine timing fashion, I find myself having an unplanned experience and just since my mother passed away recently. I am still deep in wonder of the events that have unfolded in a matter of a week and a half.

These past few posts the one in Relationships and this one here sprouted due to a friend who showed back up in my picture after a space. This space happened at the very same time I said goodbye to my family of birth and pops up right before my mother passes.

This friend and I met while still involved in the 'Jesus' movement and we walked together through our disillusionment with this movement and being extricated by the church.

The splinter for myself and shared with me by my friend and sister as being hers too was this one called Jesus or Yeshua or Immanuel.

He made some very disturbing comments to many and it cost him his life. He wanted nothting at all to do with religion or the law. Sounds like me and you and many others. And then there's the yeah, but just look what it cost him thought. So we hide to protect ourselves from the idea that we might just be interested in his life and not so much the way it was painted by others.

My belief in a God has always been very childlike. As in why could this One who made everything not be able do everything? Like take on a human form so as to be able to relate to us on our current level of understanding. Like a parent who sits with their child and reads a book beneath their level of understanding. The parent is willing to limit themself to enjoy the relationship with its child. Nothing superior or inferior is being intended here. Only love for the child. Hmmm.... Elousia is a name used for this God, meaning; "the Creator God who is truly real and the ground of all being."

I myself see in all these things we call spirituality or the path, that they can actually be a hindrance of just being able to having a relationship with the One who is behind or beyond all we can imagine and just InJoy it. Without all the we got to figure this out and go over here and then back over there and then hey! what about this or that? What about it? InJoy the diversity without doing anything buy InJoy it

I have said that love knows no bounds, maybe this God says, yes in your way of thinking Julia, would you consider that Love does limit itself to be able to have a relationship with you on your terms and level of understanding? As in this God meeting me on my current level, limitations and all?

These are the kinds of thoughts streaming through and no, I did not sit around drumming up these thoughts, they showed up. So, I just brought them in here to have a conversation with all of you about what has been transpiring since my mother stepped into the other side of Eternity. In a sense, I feel she is sending me a message unexpectedly. Hmmm... you know, keep yourself open to surprises ... that's all ... we seem to have lost the art of expecting the unexpected in some ways ...

Laura, I like that song too, thank you. I am a girl born in and from California originally so I find it funny that you brought it up. You sharing what you are dreaming while I share mine. I say Sweet dreams sister as I desire to have those too.

In deep appreciation for each one of you,

I send Love to you All today,

Julia

[TheBaron]

Dearest DH and Laura,

The three of us have banged head a few times now and I still have the utmost of respect towards the two of you.  And I didn't mean to come out "blazing" sort to speak.

Thank you for your honest answers this time.

I am not trying to disprove the existence of Jesus, Jesus himself to me is rather unimportant.

but (there's always one of these isn't there?  Just don't kick me in mine)

I am the balance system here it seems.  When people come to you genuinely seeking the truth, you feed them biased answers.  Until I came up with the huge counterclaim, you all had basically written your ideas as truth.

I know that everything here is always one person's point of view, but with Christianity you have to be conscious of what you say.  The church has extorted the Bible for so many years now that people believe every single little detail to be historical fact, where in reality, Jesus is no more likely to have been real as Achilles.

It infuriates me when Christians brainwash others, but when open-minded individuals promote this...?

DH, you are very knowledgeable and scholarly like myself, and Laura you are very enlightened, and the same with everyone else whom my first post was targeted towards, so shame on you for not 'teaching.'  Teach people the debates, the ideas, and let them decide for themselves the answer.

If you don't do this, then you are no different than the Christian organizations and no different than Amma whom Freedom just posted about http://www.ourultimatereality.com/forums/has-anyone-heard-of-amma-t1212.0.html

With utmost respect, love, and hopes,

Your eternal soul,
Brandon

(Once again Julia has been writing while I have been, so I'm going to post this as is then read hers)

[Mina-Laura]

Dear Brandon,


May I humbly ask: who is the church? Is people isn't it??

The bible is fine honestly. I come from a communist upbringing and not only I was educated in the attitude that you have but I come to be/believe just as you do now. And indeed bible makes no sense to the one that thinks himself liberated until and unless starts to filter everything through everything.

The bible is not meant to inform you or others about how things are, facts, how one should observe his/her faith etc..

The bible purpose is to create a transformation in the individual. That cannot happen as long as the individual holds onto any form of beliefs (religious, practical science, historical logistics etc). So, you see different thought current create what they want out of Bible (or anything else, it just so happens that Bible is the most obvious and popular target)

And about teaching That which is not ready to be absorbed cannot be taught. Is like this: the individual goes through certain stages - which more or less equate to a gestational period. Then one day when when that 'baby' comes to term is like 'bang' ... like orgasm, all of a sudden you are in 'the zone'.

So, all teachers can only do this: give you the stuff. What you do with it and what transformation you decide to enact is all up to you. In my case suffering played a major stepping stone (so in this Jesus Crucifixion has its own special significance in my transformation... I can't teach you what suffering and getting out of suffering is, each and every one of us has its own monsters to wrestle with, and you have none as I can see so far, or no reason so to speak you only have the joy of this moment: the mouth watering aroma of that fab chicken your precious just cooked for you, along with the precious one that brings it to you..etc .. - this means everything you process is only at intellectual level hence your desire 'to set the record straight'... however if not for that hidden unsettling feeling of 'something more' ... else you wouldn't even be into this... )

However this is not to say that your path should be like mine or anyone else for that matter. Everything goes with the Universe as everything is perfection. So, as long as you keep content, do what you must do. Argue about bible validity, Christians, etc.. you are only finding your own portal within, in your unique way.



Only people that want to be brainwashed get to be brainwashed. The Truth seeker eventually finds his/her way out.  (That Matrix movie is really awesome   )


Ultimately and ideally nothing should infuriate you. There is no virtue in any argument.

Balance doesn't really exist, balance means that Universe is static and solid whereas there's only change,  flux and receding, up and down, in and out,... like the ocean.
Try to balance your body in the waves.. what you get?? A rigid body at the mercy of the medium. Now try to be in harmony with the water, with the storm, open up to it, let go... learn the movements of water, be one with it and you shall get where you want to get.

There is no balance, there is only Zen and being one with it. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, prophets, preachers, scholars, and everything else is part of Zen. Each and everybody are only finding their own portals into it. Bible doesn't speak to you now? let it go. Do something that speaks to you. Eventually you will come to see that your aggravations were all the time only inside of you and not with the objects that cause them (Christians, bible etc).






love

[TheBaron]

Dear Laura,
I appreciate your reply, but I just feel like you're not getting it.  You skated around the answer.  You claim that knowledge should be presented to the individual and they will find the answer himself (kind of what I said before that I believe) and yet you still present only one side of the debate.

You say I'm not ready to accept the Bible, I accept the Bible, as a literary work of art, you glorify it when it is nothing more than a fantastically written story aka a myth.  When you teach it to other people as anything more than that, you are condoning the confusion involved in the search.  If people are truth seekers, where can they find the truth if everyone just tells them off?

If you want to present both sides of the story and let them decide their answer, then you would say that the bible has both the potential to be right and wrong.  You speak of balance as being rigid, well then you would not be balanced, you would be too rigid.  Do you see where I'm getting at here?

You all say that I see things from an 'odd' point of view, well I feel the same about you.  How can you accept finding the truth, being open-minded, and searching for spirituality and yet still be confined by one book?

Why do you think you're all drawn to Adrian, he teaches, he doesn't preach.  People respond better to guiding, not shoving shit in their face. 

I know that if I came here to these forums and expressed some concern about my beliefs in Jesus and you all are just like, oh yeah, Jesus is great, he was a cool dude, so real and then later I found out there was a good chance he wasn't and you knew about it, I'd feel betrayed. 

You all justify this by saying facts don't matter, feelings and ideas do, well what about the idea of betrayal, deceit, and so on?  The only facts are the theories and only giving one theory greatly misinforms the individual. 

What if I told you that this stain removal system will remove a stain from your carpet, but I neglected to tell you that it dyes the entire spot black, wouldn't that make you a little upset?  You want to help people, I get it, but do you?

I'm not trying to come across as vane or angry, I'm not, but for some time now I've tried to politely debate this with out any success.  I get that I'm not the 'popular' guy here, I don't post things for popularity.  That is why you will see me post a lot and then not post for a while, because if I don't have anything productive to say then I wont say it. 

It just appears that most of the time one person is saying something and everyone else is patting that other person on the back instead of even listening to what they are trying to say. 

Teaching in riddles is the teaching of a fool to another.  Don't get me wrong, Koans are great, some rhetorical questions are very insightful, but unless you're Taoist, which I don't hear any of you claiming to be, knowledge is power... and perhaps even Taoism takes a form of knowledge.

Now I'm getting of track...  I'm done with the whole holier than though, who sounds more enlightened debate.  Once again, I'm sorry if this sounds rash, but hopefully the use of direct words will clarify the difference here.

Namaste,
The Baron B - Advocatus Diaboli