Welcome to the Religions and Traditions forum

[Adrian]

Here we will discuss all of the great religions and traditions of the world including but not limited to Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, Tao, LDS and any other such religion or tradition. Please note that this forum exists for the purposes of rational discussions only and not arguments or evangelising. Please respect the views of others and remain calm and respectful even if you do not agree.

I suggest you visit the Our Ultimate Reality book page to see how this subject is covered in great detail in my book and claim your 7 free, full chapters:

http://www.ourultimatereality.com/our-ultimate-reality-life-the-universe-and-the-destiny-of-mankind.html

Please also visit the main Religions and Traditions site at: http://www.ourultimatereality.com/religions-and-traditions.html

In Lak'ech,

Adrian.

[Talker]

   My views about the book, March 18, 2007
Reviewer: The Talker (Chicago) - See all my reviews
I enjoyed the read. As with any title of this nature, it became highly controversial. Good. This only means that some are not ready for this material yet, if ever. What we call the "Holy Bible", is still being argued, deciphered, and with many revisions. Now, am not comparing "The Navigator" to the "Holy Bible", but the same principle of understanding, or lack of understanding applies. Once beyond certain aspects of the Bible (killing, rape, incest, and murder) one is still left with many unanswered questions about "God". I've raised the issues in my blogs (will list it, if allowed)
Razors Edge -     http://anotherlookatit.blogspot.com/
yes, I have read the Bible, and have tossed it out. But, did have to bring it back as a valuable book of reference. I classify the Bible, now, as required continuous reading. I see the Bible as a brilliant mix of fact, fiction and pure myth, that only needs greater depth of understanding. Not to say that I fully understand it, but now have a greater depth of comprehending it. After 2000 years, many are still totally in the dark on what it says, means, and is periodically revised [as if God wasn't able to speak with / or to his creation] In one fashion and in a left handed manner, "The Navigator" makes more sense than the Bible, in explaining the God concept. "The Navigator" picks up, at , what had been, my "stick" point, of the God concept.
So, am deeply into trying to understand the real depth and meaning of the bible. Most sources are of no real help, as they are mired in dogma and protecting their territory so to speak. Am keenly interested in what will materialize here.Has been some length of time since I've read "Our Ultimate Reality" and am now reviving the research aspect.
 

[Adrian]

   My views about the book, March 18, 2007
Reviewer: The Talker (Chicago) - See all my reviews
I enjoyed the read. As with any title of this nature, it became highly controversial. Good. This only means that some are not ready for this material yet, if ever. What we call the "Holy Bible", is still being argued, deciphered, and with many revisions. Now, am not comparing "The Navigator" to the "Holy Bible", but the same principle of understanding, or lack of understanding applies. Once beyond certain aspects of the Bible (killing, rape, incest, and murder) one is still left with many unanswered questions about "God". I've raised the issues in my blogs (will list it, if allowed)
Razors Edge -     http://anotherlookatit.blogspot.com/
yes, I have read the Bible, and have tossed it out. But, did have to bring it back as a valuable book of reference. I classify the Bible, now, as required continuous reading. I see the Bible as a brilliant mix of fact, fiction and pure myth, that only needs greater depth of understanding. Not to say that I fully understand it, but now have a greater depth of comprehending it. After 2000 years, many are still totally in the dark on what it says, means, and is periodically revised [as if God wasn't able to speak with / or to his creation] In one fashion and in a left handed manner, "The Navigator" makes more sense than the Bible, in explaining the God concept. "The Navigator" picks up, at , what had been, my "stick" point, of the God concept.
So, am deeply into trying to understand the real depth and meaning of the bible. Most sources are of no real help, as they are mired in dogma and protecting their territory so to speak. Am keenly interested in what will materialize here.Has been some length of time since I've read "Our Ultimate Reality" and am now reviving the research aspect.
 

Hello Talker,

Thank you for your perspective.

In fact the bible is much more than a reference, it is a book of initiation. However, like the Tarot for example it has been drastically misinterprwted and the meanings lost on most because it was never intended for everyone. The person called "Jesus" was teaching a group of teachers, the "disciples" who would later go out and teach other teachers and so on.

Of course it never happened that way, instead becoming a dogmatic, orthodox religion, abused by people for the purposes of control through fear and guilt.

In Lak'ech,

Adrian.

[Talker]

Thank you for the responce Adrian. Smack to my forehead,  like in the commercial. Never enterred into my thoughts / struggles to fully understand the words written in the bible, as an initiation. Did give Mark 4:10-11 and Matthew 13:10-13, regards Jesus giving the "secret", to only a certain few. Do you feel that those words, were some what, a clue, that they were very special in meaning to his group, but others , needed to "mature" more to get the understanding?  ! Did wrestle with the phrases, but the "initiation aspect was not reached by me. Apparently I was not ready to see that curve. But once I regained my senses and went BACK to the bible , greater understanding was taking place. Had searched for any site / forum that could approach the bible with an open mind, but most all were mired down in "closed mind" thinking. In a much earliar time, I would have been burned at the stake, for my kind of thoughts, if expressed. Looking for some good exchanges here.
Be Well

[Talker]

Hello Adrian and Aloha to all
Took the liberty of reposting from one of my blogs, the conflicts faced, based on the religion
I grew up with and dearly loved. In that my original, child beliefs and my research in later years started parting ways so severely, I called it quits on all religion. Than restlessness set in , and deep inner research took place. So what is written here, are thoughts that were part of many such inner introspections. Babbler of course is that inner voice, one hears when not deeply focused. While there is much more involved here, would like to share, what I went through.
............................................................................................

Sunday, December 31, 2006
# 4 Talker & The Babbler : On The God Concept
( "Tap tap,Yo, Talker, it's me Babbler, do I have your attention?" ) Yup, I'm listening, what woke you up ? ("Seems you have been having a string of "God" questions, floating around that I've been bumping into lately" says Babbler) Well, I've been busy, but "what are you asking"? (Babbler comes back with "what's this, yes there is a God, but not a God like many people are led to believe." ) Okay, I'll explain it to..... ( Babbler interrupts with "and would you please clarify, those loose thoughts about the Bible, that are being mingled in with the God-thoughts."). You just couldn't have a nice simple go at it, with my speaking about God only, could you. (" Well, it's been some while since you let me sneak in and inquire" snaps Babbler). If you promise not to interrupt or ask any more questions I'll continue. (With big sigh-like sound Babbler says. "Okay") Recognized is the fact, that nothing will truly be resolved, by my voicing what I think about God and religion, as being closer to the reality of it. Some will say "you need faith", "you need to believe", "it's not for us to question" or some similar type statement. Blind faith, I do not have, but faith in a higher power, is, what I have, and, that differs from my childhood religion. Yes, I do believe there is a "something" involved, and it does "respond", in a difficult to comprehend fashion. Like "electricity" no one can really give a "real" explanation. But we do "use it" every day, don't we. Theories abound, hundreds of books talk about electricity, but still, nothing explains. "What electricity is". The same applies to religion and the Bible. I find that the web is loaded with things about God, religions and the Bible. These are all difficult topics, that do require, either an open mind, blind faith or a "so what attitude ".
____________________________________

There are over six billion people in this world and each person has his or her own thoughts about God. How can a person know for sure what God is really like?
At some point in your life, you may have had some of the following questions:
Does God exist?
Is there a gender to God?
Is there a heaven and hell?
If so, how does one go to heaven or hell?
What determines, which place one goes too?
Why are there so many religions and which one is right?
Is the Bible really true?
Is any one bible, more true than another?
Is it "Jesus Christ" or "Jesus The Christ"?
___________________________________

So here we go again. Ask the above question to a thousand people, and you're likely to get a thousand different answers. And to each, and every one of them, it could be their truth, but not necessarily true. Wow! As is the case, the past does not supply answers, and who knows what the future will bring. Everything, but what I want to know. People talk about God, like scientist talk about electricity, and some of it sounds pretty good. Much of it is even believable, taken with a grain of salt. From what I've read, God spoke to many people in the Old Testament. What was the form of that speaking? Was it actually a voice coming down from the clouds? Or was it as I call it "a feeling tone"! So what has happened since those old days, if it was an actual voice coming down from the clouds, why isn't it still happening! Watch out though, you will get a long vacation in an institution, if you mention hearing voices from the clouds, to certain authorities.Questions like these, made into a list, would be endless. Many were the times Babbler, that I did not pursue questions like the following: Is God, a male or a female? Not that it's important, but would there be ethnic traits? Where would this God be located? If as some say, "God is in your heart" and if you get a heart transplant, do you get that persons God? How does one prove the existence of a heaven or a hell? When the question comes up on why are there so many religions, it's like that old saying, "different strokes for different folks", and that the right one, is the one, that you believe in. In view of all the controversy, regards God and religion, and that's not going to change in the foreseeable future, is there any resolve! I sure don't have an answer, and it appears that no one else, has either. Somewhat humorously, my Babbler just brought up, mention of what I had posted on my blog "Truth Is Like A Rubber Band." So now, in that I cannot further clarify the God concept, I close with the following thoughts: That which I say now, may seem to contradict what I have written, but that is not my intent. My "feeling tones" indicate that there is a power, that I call God. That this God-Power, shares with all life forms, a difficult to explain, oneness. That we are unique in our individual awareness, but common with the oneness, of what is called, God. Of course there are a lot of blanks to be filled in yet. Little things, like angels, devils, heaven and hell, prayers and curses, good and evil. Looking forward to it. Like my mother used to say, "if the shoe fits, wear it". Well, I have one shoe on, wonder what the other shoe will bring!

Posted by The Talker at 4:38 PM  on his blog.
Peaceful Warrior -  http://mytimeatbat.blogspot.com/

[Meresya]

Do you feel that those words, were some what, a clue, that they were very special in meaning to his group, but others , needed to "mature" more to get the understanding?

I feel the answer to your question is found in the mustard seed parable Talker.  Like anything in life, those that are open and ready to see it can see it.  Those that are not, can't.

[Meresya]

From what I've read, God spoke to many people in the Old Testament. What was the form of that speaking? Was it actually a voice coming down from the clouds? Or was it as I call it "a feeling tone"! So what has happened since those old days, if it was an actual voice coming down from the clouds, why isn't it still happening!

The short answer in terms of the mustard seed was that as soil, we were not fertile enough for the seed to grow in yet.  Some other means had to be utilitzed in order to condition us into a state of being ready for the mustard seed.

It isn't happening anymore because God sent us a new voice - Jesus.  Jesus spoke to many people as well, and still does, in the form of the New Testament.

[Adrian]

Hello,

Due to the nature of humanity; all of whom are at different levels on the path, particularly 2000 years ago, clearly Jesus was not going to be able to teach everyone everything, or even much at all.

His strategy therefore was to teach the future teachers, who would teach more teachers, all of who would teach those who are far enough along the path to undertand.

We have a clue to this here:

"Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.  For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.  Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." -- Matthew 13: 10-13   

In Lak'ech,

Adrian.

[exoplanete]

Hello ;

How is it that in your sublime 'Our Ultimate Reality' Islam is not mentioned at all, nor his teacher, Mohammed.

Should one understand that the perception of the Oneness in Islam is erroneous or wrong ?

I loved John Harricharan's ebook 'When you can walk on water, take the boat' and especially the parable of his meeting with God and all the masters sent on earth to teach mankind how to evolve.

In his reunion with God, John mentioned Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna and the list is quite long of the historical figures having played a great role on earth present in this reunion.

Salah from Rabat, Morocco.

http://www.scribd.com/full/2633117?access_key=key-yqy3g4vpr60e4alpi0n

[zensunni7]

I cannot and am not speaking for Adrian here, I am quite sure he will answers with his own wisdom.
I think everyone who is non-Islamic has been programmed by current events to not speak of Mohammed. Islam is a beautiful religion, responsible for much of the worlds beauty in architecture, sciences, and theology. The Koran is also a book of unity and love, yet extremes in its sects and inner war makes the world see it in a very negative light. To speak of its atrocities in the name of Mohammed and the Koran are also forbidden, allowing it immunity to its inner ugliness being spoken of truthfully.
Christianity also shares this blood history, yet it is open to the worlds scrutiny and discussion. As well as other religions throughout history. Islam has set the stage for nothing less than world unity - or else - scenario. Become Islam or die, much the same message Christians sent out in its path to world domination.

One cannot embrace Islam or Christianity, Judaism, or any religion that demands its acceptance, as a child bully on a playground. Is this the message of any of the masters in your post? Yet it is a message that we are all trying to avoid having been said in our time.
The new Pope said Islam was a violent religion throughout time, as is his own, yet it was also a truthful statement. But truth is not allowed in these times, by religion, business, or politics. While the media has sold their own Souls for the right to report only what they are told now.

All these great religions in the height of their growth have been great spirits in the Human arena, bringing forth much advancement into civilization. But this is not such a time in their histories. This is a time of shame on all of them.Are the atrocities of Israel any less than those of Palestine? Was the horror left in the name of Jesus any less horrible than those in Mohammed's name? Were the Jews any anymore persecuted than the other five to six million non-Jew's that died in the same gas chambers? Where are their names and honor? Where are those pursuing their killers?
In all these old religions there are beautiful, sincere, very authentically spiritual people, filled with love, compassion and grace, yet they are silent to the wars within their own, yet are the majority.

Anyone can write a book saying they have met with the great masters, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, even God, yet it matters not unless it has a place in the real world where these religions wage war only for their own purposes, like the politics and big business they claim to renounce and be superior to.
If religion be the truth of a powerful God and its prophets, then people souls would flock to it and not be detered from its love and power. It would not need conversion by prayer or sword. Jews, Christians, and Muslims have warred since time began, the middle East has always been a war zone, and the US has always been their Satan. So perhaps it is just time for them to play put their self-written prophecies and have their final war, Jihad, Armageddon, whatever, and let the rest of the world move ahead in the evolution and true enhancement of the Race, not one religion over another. These are children that will not ever cease fighting and care not who gets hurt in their selfishness, they need only to be right and nothing else matters.

If this seems harsh, I do not ask amends, it is less harsh than centuries of living with the threats and horrors of religions constant condemnations and self imposed superiority in the name of a God they defile with never ending slaughter.
I personally honor the names of those that have brought great change to the hearts of Humanity, as much I feel reverence for Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, I would not shed a tear to never hear those names again, for whatever they were amongst us, we have sold, slaughtered, and defiled from them.

WithIn Love
Darrell

[Adrian]

Dear Darrell,

Yes you are absolutely correct.

People find it easy to point at Islam and speak of "terrorism", yet many of these people belong to a large part of the Christian religion that has been responsible for more brutal torturings, maimings and deaths - more than all the wars put together - in the name of their God. At the same time they systematically destroyed the heritage of all cultures in an effort to forcibly convert them to Christianity. For example, the Pope ordered that a large fire be built before the Mayan people and that all of their invaluable Codices should be burnt. Knowing what we know of the Maya and their surviving legacy in stone, who knows what treasures were lost?

I know quite a lot of the Qur'an having studied all the great books of the world in order to obtain a balanced perspective. There is nothing in the Qur'an that promotes violence. As has often been the case, particularly in Christianity, certain passages are selected and distorted as an excuse for violence and/or oppression.

The Qu'ran in any case was constructed from the memory of many people of the words of Mohamed, and inevitably personal bias would have appeared from the transcribers.

The major issue with the Qur'an however is the same as with the Bible - everyone takes the words literally when in fact there are deep hidden meanings for those who can see those meanings, and to whom they become obvious.

Also a major issue is simply religious as well as racial intolerance. They say "my book is better than your book" or "my God is the one true God" etc, thereby breaking many of the teachings about tolerance in their own books.

We have to accept the fact that this is all part of the human condition and a part of human evolution, just as the countless pantheons of deities were for the pagans of the past.

Ultimately, people will wake up to our ultimate reality, literally, will know the glorious truth that we are all God and expressions of God Whom we realise within and express, and will see the past in that context.

In LVX,

Adrian.

[juliainkc]

Hello exoplanete, Darrell and Adrian and All,

Welcome exoplante to the forums. I wish to add my voice in welcoming you to the forums.

I wish to share something I was recently shown and asked to consider:

Defenselessness.

God's teachers have learned how to be simple. They have no dreams that need defense against the truth. They do not try to make themselves. Their joy comes from their understanding Who created them. And does what God created need defense? No one can become an advanced teacher of God until he fully understands that defenses are but foolish guardians of mad illusions. The more grotesque the dream, the fiercer and more powerful its defenses seem to be. Yet when the teacher of God finally agrees to look past them, he finds that nothing was there. Slowly at first he lets himself be undeceived. But he learns faster as his trust increases. It is not danger that comes when defenses are laid down. It is safety. It is peace. It is joy. And it is God.

Sharing from my well, Sending Peace your way,

Many Blessings, Be Well and InJoy,

Julia

[zensunni7]

Greetings All,

I taught my children, there is One church - it is called Earth, One religion, it is what you do in every moment of your life. If they wanted to feel Gods presence, just play in  the woods. Forests where children play bloom with divine energy, as do the children.
I agree Adrian, it is all a part of the evolution. Yet I must add that we need to accept that these harsh realities exist. Molesters, thieves, killers walk amongst us.
These are all things I had to make my children aware of s they grew. I also had to make them aware that these people exist, but they did not have to accept the actions of such people.
I too read all the Holy books at the beginning of my spiritual growth, when I took charge of it for myself, then reread them throughout my life. As Julia so beautifully pointed out- the truth was in the simplicity of the message and the messengers. Distortions, misinterpretations, even deliberate misinformation have hampered the way, yet I find fault not with the body of religion, but those that leave their evolution to another, those that hand their power over to dogmatic dictators of God.
We alone are responsible for our relationship with God. When Gandhi was asked of Christ, he replied " I love your Christ very much, it is your Christians I do not like. They are so unlike Him. "

WithIn Love
Darrell



 

[melody]

I taught my children, there is One church - it is called Earth, One religion, it is what you do in every moment of your life. If they wanted to feel Gods presence, just play in  the woods. Forests where children play bloom with divine energy, as do the children.

Hello Zensunni7,

I totally agree that the best places to communing with God are in the nature, like in a forest, or up in the mountains, or by a secluded lake , a stream, or on an ocean beach, away from the civilization and where there are no crowds. Those places also have more pure air to breath, and the air is charged with energy that is good for us.