Vegans, Diet, Raw Foods and Health Posts

[Adrian]

Hello Jonmou,

Again the same conditions are made for vegetation in the forms of massive crops sprayed with pesticides, harvested, used and abused.  The idea of gathering plants simply does not exist in a modern civilization.  It should also be pointed out that its called hunter/gatherers.  So from what you are saying it seems that it can only be right to hunt only free animals and gather wild plants?

I understand what you are saying, but it is all a matter of balance.

The mass use of pesticides, cleance of forests for soya bean crops etc. is clearly wrong, and an abuse of nature and therefore the Universe, and of course in turn mankind itself.

Of course we should not be hunter-gatherers However it all comes down to the excesses that mankind indulges in these days for egocentric, materialistic and selfish purposes. Plain and simple mankind is grossly abusing itself and this is why there is growing obesity, diabetes, heart and other organ issues etc.. It is all cause and effect.

Again it is all about balance. The planet is totally out of balance right now. Growing crops is not the same as breeding live animals. Crops can be grown organically and in a natural safe way and provide food for everyone.  The same cannot be said of breeding animals which have far greater needs that breeders in the quest for profit have no regards for.

Best regards,

Adrian.

[Feefee]

I decided to start a new thread on this subject as this thread is getting too long to browse through. The new thread has the same name: Vegan vs. the meat/ right vs. wrong. Part II.

Hope you don't mind

[Feefee]

I decided to start a new thread on the subject as the other thread is getting too long to browse through. The new thread has the same name: Vegan vs. the meat/ right vs. wrong. Part II.
Hope you don't mind

Well it has become clear that no one is going to even attempt to put some sort of evidence to back claims that it is "unnatural" or "wrong" to eat meat.  I have posted evidence for the other side, both physical and spiritual.

It is all a matter of one's stage in evolution. Certain people at certain stage of evolution find it loathsome the sight of animal carcass on their dinner plate because common sense tells them it is wrong to kill a sentient being. Other people based on their evolutionary stage, see nothing wrong in killing any sentient being for food or sports. As a matter of fact they can give you thousand and one reasons why it is okay to kill or eat animal carcasses for food, they will even quote you from the Bible, and no amount of evidence or reasoning could convince them otherwise, until they finally see the light.

Another thing is that there remains many questions unanswered.
 Such questions as: How can it be wrong to kill animals for food yet not wrong to kill plants for food?

Just as humans and animals, plants are on the evolutionary path as well. In their current stage certain plants at the end of their seasonal circles produce what we call fruits and vegetables. And these items would go to waste if not eaten by animals and humans. Therefore you do not take life by eating fruits and vegetables.

In reading the book, Our Ultimate Reality", it talks about how there is no "death" there is just a change in energy form or transfer of energy.  So in actuallity you are not destroying the animal but releasing it to the next manefestation.

By killing an animal for food, we cut short that particular animal's evolution and forces it to start all over again by building a new physical or dense body to continue its evolutionary journey. Therefore when we kill an animal we delay its evolution and the "Law of Cause and Effect" will surely catch up to us. It doesn't matter whether we do the killing ourselves or by proxy.

Most importantly before going off into many different aspects of this topic I think the above question should truely be answered.  Plants are life, perhaps even more evolved then animals.  Plants feel just as all beings do.  So please let me know how it is ok to do as you say is done to animals, destory plants just to satisfy the sense of taste?

The Archangels are to the Angels what the Angels are to Humans. Humans are to the animals what the Angels are to Us. Could you imagine the Angels putting us in cages, using us for sports, testing new drugs on us, and killing us for food? How would we feel then? Of course the Angels would not do that because they are highly evolved Beings, instead, they are like servants to us, they help us with our evolution. Thus, it is incumbent upon us to help the animals evolve.

Plants are life, perhaps even more evolved then animals.  Plants feel just as all beings do.

Actually that's inaccurate. Physical Matter has only physical body and it doesn't grow. Plants on the other hand have a Physical Body and a Vital Body-the universal substance that keeps the physical body alive and makes it able to propagate. Animals have a physical body, a vital body, and a Desire Body-the source of passion, emotions, and feelings. Man on the other hand has a physical body, a vital body, a desire body, and a MIND.

In summary, the Plant Life-Wave is one step ahead of the Physical Matter, the Animal Life-Wave is one step ahead of the Plant Life-Wave, Human Life-Wave is one step ahead of the Animal Live wave.

All Life-Waves are on a evolutionary path to gather experience and attain PERFECTION. And it is incumbent upon each Life-Wave to assist the other and not interfere in a negative manner. By assisting other Life-Waves and fellow humans to evolve, we advance ourselves on the EVOLUTIONARY PATH in a very marked way.

By the way, do you know that there are NO gastric juices or digestive enzymes in the human stomach to digest meat? When we eat meat, it just sit in the intestines until it gets rotten before the digestive system could process and eliminate it. That's why we feel so full after gorging on animal carcasses.
Do a research. I heard that on "Oprah", a medical doctor was explaining how meat is digested

[deepspot]

I find it difficult to believe a conversation could last so long....If you like meat eat it.If you dont like it dont eat it.Let everyone make their own way.


Love Always  Deepspot

[Feefee]

I find it difficult to believe a conversation could last so long....If you like meat eat it.If you dont like it dont eat it.Let everyone make their own way.


Love Always  Deepspot

Actually "Deepspot" you are very right, believe it or not, it is not wrong to eat animals based on your evolutionary stage. If you like meat, all power to you, go ahead and eat meat never ever feel guilty about it.

It is only when you really want to advance spiritually, for example, to be able to enter the Invisible Worlds consciously, to be able to leave your physical body at will, to be able to consciously interact with your Higher Self, to be able to command and control Forces of Nature, etc. then it becomes a necessity to abstain from meat eating to develop your Higher Vehicles.

By eating only fruits and vegetables you increases your spiritual vibrations and that accelerate your spiritual development.

So as you can see, eating or abstaining from meat is by personal choice only and not a command

You can still eat meat and be a spiritual aspirant, the only problem is that your spiritual development turns to be very slow. To accelerate your spiritual development you have to abstain from meat and other things as well, and not just meat.

[nay]

It is only when you really want to advance spiritually, for example, to be able to enter the Invisible Worlds consciously, to be able to leave your physical body at will, to be able to consciously interact with your Higher Self, to be able to command and control Forces of Nature, etc. then it becomes a necessity to abstain from meat eating to develop your Higher Vehicles.

I've been projecting for quite some time now and I haven't seemed to have problems as a meat eater.     I do believe if you think you can't do something, then you won't be able to.

Nay

[deepspot]

Someone can go from point A to point B without restrictions or resistance if they choose to believe so. Someone my also seek the same destination  believing there are many steps involved.Its all about discovering you are already master and the universe obeys your every command.The thing to be conscious of is what are your commands...

Love Always   Deepspot

[Feefee]

Hi Nay;
Thanks for joining in the discussion. Very interesting topic huh?

I've been projecting for quite some time now and I haven't seemed to have problems as a meat eater.     I do believe if you think you can't do something, then you won't be able to.

Nay

Actually if you had read a little bit closely you would have found that I made a reference to your point as well.

You can still eat meat and be a spiritual aspirant, the only problem is that your spiritual development turns to be very slow. To accelerate your spiritual development you have to abstain from meat and other things as well, and not just meat.

As a matter of fact there are certain people who even drink alcohol, smoke, and eat meat and still able to project, hear, and see invisible things. You don't have to be a saint to project.

But there's a difference between just hearing and seeing things, projecting, having psychic abilities, etc. and being a real Truth Seeker, a real Spiritual Aspirant.

The ones that don't have to wait till bed time to project, but can project at any time of the day and not just project but be able to perform scientific research and experiment in the Invisible Worlds and bring back their findings to the physical world.

The ones that can consciously leave their dense body and materialize in any part of the physical world and help burning, drowning and accident victims. The ones that can project and visit the sick in the middle of the night and and help to heal them from their suffering and anguish. The ones that can look you in the face and know everything there is to know about your life, from the cradle to the grave. The ones that.......do I need to go on?

Those people are called Invisible Helpers,(and they are all over the globe) and that's what every true Spiritual/Truth Seeker aspires to become. And to attain that status, we have no choice but to abstain from meat and other things as well. Because there is but only One Life, the Life of God, The Source that permeate and sustain the whole universe and beyond  

[Feefee]

Someone can go from point A to point B without restrictions or resistance if they choose to believe so. Someone my also seek the same destination  believing there are many steps involved.Its all about discovering you are already master and the universe obeys your every command.The thing to be conscious of is what are your commands...

Love Always   Deepspot

Hi "Deepspot"
Nice to hear from you once again

You see, it is very good to have that faith and belief you are talking about, but it can only go so far. You can't have it both ways. Just by believing you are a Master in the universe does not make you so. Material Science honestly believes there are no invisible worlds, there's no life after death, etc. but that does not make it so, does it?

[Adrian]

Hello everyone,

There are two main aspects to this excellent and worthwhile discussion.

1) Is eating meat wrong?

2) Will eating meat affect your ability to leave your body?

Well first of all I think we have discussed 1) at some length already and I cannot add much. I would say that it is true to say that as you progress Spriritually you have an increasing respect for all life however small. It doesn't matter whether it is a single celled organism or an Elephant, every form of life is an integral and equal aspect of The Source, and when you knowingly harm another being you not only commit a crime against The Universe you also equally harm yourself. This is Law and there is no escaping it however much someone might justify it to themselves just because they fancy a big mac, or an insect is annoying them. I personally go to any lengths not to harm anything. For example if it has rained, before driving my car out of the garage, I will walk the driveway to ensure that there are no worms, or slugs or snails in the way of my car. If there are I will pick them up and move them.

There are beings in the inner spheres who make us look like single celled organisms by comparison, so advanced are they. Yet they would never look down on us as inferior. These mighty and exalted beings view us with Unconditional Love and assist us in any way they can because they were once like us. One day we will all evolve to their level, and greater still; but fundamantal lessons need to be learned on the path first.

2) Some people have naturally better AP and OBE abilities than others; and there is a very wide range. For those that wish to seriously wish to project but cannot as yet, there is no question that meat, caffeine, alcohol and mind-altering substances generally will hold you back.  This is not only my view but that of people like Robert Monroe and others.

All in all it is far wiser to eat a vegan or at least vegetarian diet for the reasons I have mentioned, but everyone is at their own stage on the path, and everyone must arrive at these things for themselves as part of the kinderten of learning that is Earth.

Best regards,

Adrian.

[Feefee]

Well said Adrian!!
Thanks for your excellent remark

[jonmou]

Thanks Feefee, you have much to say about this.  Perhaps you can answer some more questions I have.  But of course this is for anyone reading it.

   First some questions specifically for Feefee.  You mention that to advance more rapid it is better to abstain from meat and other things.  What other things should one abstain from and what is the reasoning to abstain from those other things?  From what you were saying I gathered that you may claim to be more evolved then me since you do not eat meat.  I say may because you did not directly say you were and that is why I will ask this next question.  I will put this in the simplist way that will answer all the thoughts i have.  Is it possible for someone that eats meat to be more evolved then someone that does not eat meat?
Lastly you spoke of all these incredible things such as cureing the sick.  Is there anything that you can do personally along these lines?  

   The following is for anyone.  There is all this talk about what is natural and what is not.  Some how something being unatural makes it bad and the other way around.  Here is the problem I have and must understand with this matter.  There are a great deal of things in our modern society that you could consider "unnatural".  For example driving a car, sitting in front of a computer, and a great deal of other cultural aspects and technologies.  How can a machine be natural and following that would it being unnatural make it bad?  
   Okay one last thing      On the topic of protecting all life even single celled organism.  Is it to my understanding that as evolved being we should let swarms of ants, rat, and other pests take over our world?  Because if not taken care of they will.  Further such pests care small things such as viruses and disease.  Should we not even kill harmful viruses and bacteria because they are also life?.  Because sadly to say if we don't kill them they WILL kill us.

[jonmou]

Feefee wrote:

Actually that's inaccurate. Physical Matter has only physical body and it doesn't grow. Plants on the other hand have a Physical Body and a Vital Body-the universal substance that keeps the physical body alive and makes it able to propagate. Animals have a physical body, a vital body, and a Desire Body-the source of passion, emotions, and feelings. Man on the other hand has a physical body, a vital body, a desire body, and a MIND.

I have read about experiments with plants that show they have feelings or some sense.  Here is what happened:  Three plants are hooked up with electromagnetic readering devices.  The plants in a sitting state are fine.  All three plants are sitting in an empty room.  A man walks into the room and the plants read normal.  The man leaves.  The man comes back into the room, walks up to one of the plants, then violently destroys one of them.  The other two plants electromagnetic readings go threw the roof.  The man leaves and the plants go back to normal.  A different person comes into the room.  The two remaining plant's readings are normal.  That person leaves.  The man who destroyed the plant comes back into the room and the two plants electromagnetic readings instantly go threw the roof again.  The man leaves and the plants go back to normal.  This is repeated with different people walking in and out of the room with the plants continually peaking only when the person that destroyed the one plant returns.

   This suggests that not only do plants have some since of their surrounding and some sort of feeling but also shows that they have memory as well.
    Just thought I would share that with you and see what you thought.

[Scorpio Of The Woods]

Maybe this is going to sound like a silly question but I think it is a significant one. How does one shift their diet from meat based to vegetable based? You can hear the endless debate between the meat eaters and veggie eaters. You can hear the countless studies saying we need to eat less meat and more vegetables. But no one tells you how. While this might seem like a silly question at first, anyone who has tried to shift their diet to vegan or just reduce meat can understand the frustration, unless I am just totally clueless. Several years ago I tried to cut out meat from my diet. To be honest I never felt so good, but I got very bored with it. I did not know what to do or how to make such a diet interesting and appealing. I was raised on a heavily meat based diet, as I am sure most in the USA have been. I had no clue how to really cook vegetables and such a diet. So I am asking, How? Where is a good place to start?

(This thread is not to debate eating meat as we already have a few for that.)

[knucklebrain]

I just stopped eating meat for 2 weeks once. I really didn't care that much. I just adopted the attitude that food is food and I don't care. When you eat meat I think I made more of an enjoyment out of it. When I did go vegan for 2 weeks, I just told myself I was eating to maintain. I'd just make up anything. I made an asparagus casserole with boiled asparagus, with lemons and garlic butter sauce and swiss cheese on top, baked it.

Another dish I came up with was 3 scrambled eggs with spinach on top with cottage cheese atop the spinach and cayenne pepper and sea salt. The main reason I stopped is because it is very time consuming eating vegetables all the time. To be a proper vegan, you have to devote at least 1 hour a day to food preparation.

Vegatables go bad too, you have to go to the store a lot.

It was basically the fact that my wife was not into it, and she does the cooking. She did make me a few dishes with the boca hamburger that was awesome, but I basically felt bad for her having to make 2 of everything.

I'm thinking of cutting way down on the meat and I'm buying a juicer soon as well. It's very time consuming to be a vegan. However, there are millions of recipes out there. The food can taste as good and better than regular food, but it is not easy.

Kevin