The difference between the soul(nafs) and spirit(ruh)

[marwa]

Peace be upon you all,
I am a new member here, and what really drew my interest to join this forum is that it welcomes all people from very different religions, and we actually in need of something like that, because we live on the same planet, which became through the Internet like a village. And living on the same village, I strongly believe that we have to understand each other, look for things that are similar in all of us, which can develop us to the better so that we perform our mission in the ideal way.

The difference between the spirit and the soul will be my first subject to post. I would like you to read it with an open mind, and I believe that all of you members have a very wide-open mind and heart, and being a member of this multi- religion forum is the evidence for that.
I tried my best to translate what one of my brothers (in Islam) has written into English. Please forgive me if there is spelling or grammar mistakes. I tried to look for the simplest translations of the holy Quran and it is taken from www.quran.org.uk/
Most of the verses are taken from Dr.T.B.Irving translation.

Most of us believe that the soul is the same as the spirit in reality they are not.

The soul is the one that leaves our body during our sleep and when we die, and not our spirit.
God says in the Holy Koran:  Every soul shall taste of death, {chapter: the family of Imran} and He did not say “Every Spirit…’’ And if you read the Arabic version of the Holy Koran, you will recognize that the word روح means spirit, where as نفس means soul, and they are not synonyms.

 “God recalls souls at the time of their death, and those who have not died, during their sleep. He holds on to anyone whom death has been decided for, and sends the others back for a specific period. In that are signs for folk who meditate.”(Chapter:Throngs)

Your soul and my soul and every human being’s soul have existed before our birth; it will remain as long as there is life and will remain after our death.

"When your Lord took their offspring from the Children of Adam's loins, and made them bear witness about themselves: 'Am I not your Lord?” they said: 'Of course, we testify to it!" lest you (all) might say on Resurrection Day: "We were unaware of this;" or lest you say: "It was only our forefathers who associated [others with God] previously; offspring following them. Will You wipe us out because of what furtile men have done?" Thus We spell out signs so that they may repent."{Chapter the heights}

This was a scene that humans’ souls attended before being reincarnated in the physical bodies, so that no one should blame his father, family or the society he lives in for misguidance in his life, since every soul has attended this scene and by that the meaning of God has settled in every human by instinct.

Also the Spirit does not get depressed, bored, or get tortured or desire something. These situations, status and others are only related to the soul and not to the spirit.

God says in the Koran: And the soul and Him Who made it perfect, Then He inspired it to understand what is right and wrong for it; He will indeed be successful who purifies it, and he will indeed fail who corrupts it. {Chapter: The Sun}

"Nor do I absolve my own self (of blame): the (human) soul is certainly prone to evil, unless my Lord do bestow His Mercy: but surely my Lord is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful." {Chapter: Joseph}
“It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. {Chapter Qaf}”.

“And those saved from the covetousness of their own souls, - they are the ones that achieve prosperity” {Chapter Banishment}

So from that we understand that the soul is the one that is accused in the Koran of whispering cruel and evil ideas to the human, or being greedy and selfish and has the tendency of doing bad things. However, the soul can be developed to purify from its poisonous thinking and doing.

God said: “O Tranquil soul, return to your Lord, well pleased and pleasing [Him]! Enter among My servants, and enter My garden."

However the Spirit (Ruh) in the Holy Qur’an is always mentioned by a high degree of sacredness, and it is not mentioned of being bored or tortured or that it feels affection for something or being covetous. And it has never been stated that it tastes death or that it leaves the human body. Also, it is always attributed to God and never to the human.

God says about Maryam (mother of Prophet Jesus, be peace upon him): Mention in the Book how Mary withdrew from her people to an Eastem place. She chose to be secluded from them. We sent her Our spirit, who presented himself to her as a full-grown human being. She said: "I take refuge with the Mercy-giving from you, unless you are someone who does his duty. He said: 'I am only your Lord's messenger to bestow a clean-living boy on you," She said: "How shall I have a boy when no human being has ever touched me, nor am I a loose woman?" He said: "Thus your Lord has said: "It is a simple matter for Me [to do]. We will grant him as a sign for mankind and a mercy from Ourself." It is a matter that has been decided."

And it is written in the Koran about Adam: “So your Lord told the angels: "I am about to create a human being from ringing clay, from moulded slime. When I have finished with him and breathed some of My spirit into him, then drop down on your knees before him." {Chapter Alhijr} Here God says My spirit and not Prophet Adam’s spirit.

So it is understandable that the Spirit (Ruh) is attributed to God and not to the human. And it is always from God and to God, and the human’s habits and attitudes do not relate to the spirit by any mean. And as it has been mentioned before, the spirit does not get depressed, tortured, upset……..as the human’s soul. And that’s why it is always portrayed with high descriptions.

God says about Jesus: “Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, was merely God's messenger and His word which He cast into Mary, and a spirit [proceeding] from Him”.{Chapter: The Women}

But the soul is always attributed to the human


“Any good that happens to you comes from God, while anything bad that happens to you is through yourself”.(Chapter The women).  The word yourself simply means your soul which commands the human to think evilly or commit bad things.

But when the soul (Ruh) is attributed to God, then that is God (The Almighty) himself.  It is not as the human soul, and we can not imagine how it is.

 “When God said: 'Jesus, son of Mary, have you told people: "Take me and my mother as two gods instead of God [Alone]?’” he said: "Glory be to You! It is not my place to say what I have no right to [say]. If I had said it, You would have known it already: You know what is on my mind, while I do not know anything that is on Yours. You are the Knower of Unseen things”. (Chapter: The Table)

So, the human soul is not by any way similar to the soul of God except in the spelling and pronunciation, both of them are completely different.

" There is nothing like Him! He is the Alert, the Observant He holds the controls over Heaven and earth; He extends sustenance and measures it out to anyone He wishes. He is Aware of everything! (Chapter Consultation)

And in the chapter Sincerity or {God’s Oneness) God says: “SAY: "God is Unique!
God is the Source [for everything];
He has not fathered anyone
nor was He fathered, and there
is nothing comparable to Him!"

Then the question is: What is our share from the Spirit?

And what is meant when we say that every one of us has got a Physical body and a Spirit?

And what is the relation between the soul of each one of us and his physical body and his spirit?

Actually a breath from the spirit has been given to us during our creation .
“And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge) (and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators."

And in another place in the Quran God mentions the steps of the human’s creation again:” He started out by creating man from clay; then He made his progeny from an extract of discarded liquid; next He completed him and breathed some of His own spirit into him. He has granted you hearing, eyesight and vital organs. Yet small thanks do you give for it!”

We have been through these steps when we were in our mother’s womb, and as it is indicated by the verses, the human will rise to a very high level and this will be when a breath from the spirit is sent to him. And our ability to see, and hear are some of the known gifts of that breath.

So, our share from the spirit is that breath, and every one of us will consume from that breath depending on how pure is his soul.

If we imaginethe spirit and the body as two magnetic poles, then your soul will be the iron atom that is affected by these two magnetic fields, and the strength of attraction of these two poles i.e. the body and spirit. Or we can imagine the body to be the earth and its gravitational field, while the spirit is that wide, undiscovered space which is surrounded by ambiguity.

So what I want to say here is that whenever we try to jump, the earth’s gravitational field attracts us strongly down, no matter how many times we jump we will still return back to the ground. But when the man had the curiosity and the strong desire to explore the dark, amazing space he used the mind that God has gifted him and invented the space shuttle. So it took him years and years of thinking, and hard work to reach to the day when he was finally able to visualize some of the secrets of the space.

And that’s exactly the same for your soul, which is attracted by two poles. One pole will attract you to the lowest point, where you live like an animal, eating, drinking, doing whatever you want, and looking for what satisfies and fulfills the desires of your soul to the extreme and beyond the logic without bothering to think for a moment whether it’s right or wrong. While the other pole (the spirit) will let you see, not by your eyes but by the purity of your soul, things if you claim that you have seen it to normal people, they will think you are crazy, and some might feel pity that you still have that imagination of childhood. But in reality you may be crazy, but the most intelligent of all crazy people.

Please note that, it does not mean that God has sent to us a breath from the Spirit that we are part from Him. This is impossible. Please try to perceive that God is not like anything we have thought of or imagined. That breath is like a candle that lightens our path, to show us the safe path from the dangerous one.
“They will ask you about the Spirit, SAY: "The Spirit [operates] at my Lord's command, while you have been given only a smattering of knowledge.” Chapter: the night journey

[Talker]

Peace, Healing and My Love to All,
It has been said, you will avoid conflict, if you never, speak on religion or politics. Sad to say, that the worlds problems, are mostly based on religion and politics. You have expressed yourself very coherently. Welcome to the forums. Like you, I have expressed thoughts that others may be interested in. The bible has a passage that is much overlooked (  1 Thessalonian 5:23 - Spirit, Soul, and Body..) and your post goes into the subject nicely. Have expressed some of my difficulties with the bible, and other conditions in life, through my blogging, and how I approached those situations and conditions. Right or wrong, is not always a clear issue, so the use of common sense must enter, along with love of God and respect for all life. Pathways I have traveled, are some what, covered in my blog posts.With me, religion, healing, and psychic activity have been most interesting and fulfilling.
Be Well

# 8 Religious Quandary
http://anotherlookatit.blogspot.com/2004/07/8-religious-quandary.html

# 49 Soul Food
http://anotherlookatit.blogspot.com/2005/09/soul-food.html

# 10 Immigrants, Not Australians, Must Adapt. Take It Or Leave It.
http://theancientonespeaks.blogspot.com/

[marwa]

 Thank you for your reply Mr. Talker. Yes , I agree with you , that many of the world’s problems are based on religion, as if people through out their existence are very eager to please God, but in reality a lot of them are using religion as an instrument to reach to their desires, whether its political aims or not. There are many who take advantage of others and claim that this is God’s religion, and direct people to his religion that he made for himself, and not that God has chosen for him.
I read some of your blogs. I understand how you feel. But you know Mr. Talker; there must be a true religion of God, since we have not been brought to this life to play a game, or to solve a puzzle “What is the true religion?” God does not want to torture us by making us spent years of our lives in search for the true religion. And in my opinion, it’s a blunder to say that all religions cause miseries to the human, for why then God has brought us to this life if we do not have something like a catalogue that guide us how to get the most of this life, in a way that preserve the purity of our souls. I believe if we are 100% loyal to God then as God said: “Heed God, for God teaches you! God is Aware of everything” {chapter the cow 2: 282}

“Whenever My servants ask you about Me, {it means] I am Near. I answer the appeal of the prayerful one whenever he appeals to Me. Let them respond to Me, and believe in Me so they may be directed!”(Chapter the cow 2:186)

“Virtue does not mean for you to turn your faces towards the East and West, but virtue means one should believe in God [Alone], the Last Day, angels, the Book and prophets; and no matter how he loves it, to give his wealth away to near relatives, orphans, the needy, the wayfarer and beggars, and towards freeing captives; and to keep up prayer and pay the welfare tax; and those who keep their word whenever they promise anything; and are patient under suffering and hardship and in time of violence. Those are the ones who act loyal and they perform their duty.”

[Talker]

Thought it best to post in this unusual manner, to best offer my thoughts on your reply. Look for  the ( Talker ) entries
Talker

 Thank you for your reply Mr. Talker.
( Talker ) Thank you for the response.

Yes , I agree with you , that many of the world’s problems are based on religion,
( Talker )  Should have further clarified, that it is often the type of person and strict dogma within a religion, that can create the problems faced, world wide, not necessarily the actual religion.

as if people through out their existence are very eager to please God, but in reality a lot of them are using religion as an instrument to reach to their desires, whether its political aims or not.
( Talker ) I do believe that all living matter, is programed to return to the Creator, and yes , one seeks out religion to fulfill that desire.

There are many who take advantage of others and claim that this is Gods religion,
( Talker ) I do believe, that this is the point where problems commence. When one claims they are God inspired and sets out the rules to follow, common sense needs to enter, does, what is said, " cause harm to you or another". If it does , its difficult for me than, to believe that it is Gods Will.

and direct people to his religion that he made for himself, and not that God has chosen for him.
( Talker ) The problem continues. What is Gods religion. I surely cant answer that, nor can any other. My question would be, " why would the creator of all life, request anything but good for its creation." There are many actions or lack of actions , that can be called "sins", and as I see it, comes down to common sense awareness and application. My view again, is only causing harm to life, in any form, is the real and only sin.

I read some of your blogs. I understand how you feel. But you know Mr. Talker; there must be a true religion of God, since we have not been brought to this life to play a game, or to solve a puzzle “What is the true religion?”
( Talker ) Very good and valid point. Am not aware of any religion being the one and only True religion, even in the face of any religion claiming it is the only True religion. I feel, and state again, if a religion ( not its people per se ) cause harm to life, it is not Gods Will, and is a false religion. I surely cant answer all the questions about causing harm, to all life, but only as it applies to humans in this case. Can only prevail upon common sense, ( praying that I do have that )

God does not want to torture us by making us spent years of our lives in search for the true religion. And in my opinion, it’s a blunder to say that all religions cause miseries to the human, for why then God has brought us to this life if we do not have something like a catalogue that guide us how to get the most of this life, in a way that preserve the purity of our souls.
( Talker ) Here is where the so called " Holy Bible ", was to be a guide so to speak and in general, has been misinterpreted and incorrectly used.

I believe if we are 100% loyal to God then as God said: “Heed God, for God teaches you! God is Aware of everything” {chapter the cow 2: 282}

“Whenever My servants ask you about Me, {it means] I am Near. I answer the appeal of the prayerful one whenever he appeals to Me. Let them respond to Me, and believe in Me so they may be directed!”(Chapter the cow 2:186)

“Virtue does not mean for you to turn your faces towards the East and West, but virtue means one should believe in God [Alone], the Last Day, angels, the Book and prophets; and no matter how he loves it, to give his wealth away to near relatives, orphans, the needy, the wayfarer and beggars, and towards freeing captives; and to keep up prayer and pay the welfare tax; and those who keep their word whenever they promise anything; and are patient under suffering and hardship and in time of violence. Those are the ones who act loyal and they perform their duty.”
( Talker )  Nicely worded and very commendable. The word " loyal " is or can prove to be troublesome though. If one is " loyal " to an incorrect tenet, then we are right back where the original "wrongness " started. As long as one
( we / us ) can, without offense, talk about these matters, I believe we are on the proper road to Gods Will.  It is my pleasure to be speaking this way with you.
Be Well
Talker

[marwa]

     Before I start writing my thoughts, I want to tell you that your comments and thoughts makes my mind brainstorm, and to think, and I like this way of discussion that builds and does not corrupts.



( Talker ) I do believe that all living matter, is programmed to return to the Creator, and yes , one seeks out religion to fulfill that desire.
(Marwa) Yes we are all programmed to return to God, but sometimes when the purity of the heart is wrapped by dirt, then the person might be perplexed and follow what his infected heart say. And we have seen or heard many examples of such people like pharaoh who tortured children of Israel, and considered himself as God.


( Talker ) I do believe that this is the point where problems commence. When one claims they are God inspired and sets out the rules to follow, common sense needs to enter, does, what is said, " cause harm to you or another". If it does, its difficult for me than, to believe that it is Gods Will.

and direct people to his religion that he made for himself, and not that God has chosen for him.
( Talker ) The problem continues. What is Gods religion? I surely can’t answer that, nor can any other.

 (Marwa) look Mr. Talker, through out most of human’s history those who where on the right track were fewer and usually obsessed. And if a person or a group of people or the majority of the world or 99.9 % of all people is not aware of the true religion, then this does not simply mean that no one can answer what’s God’s religion, and this is not God’s problem, its humans’ fault.
“Whosoever does righteous good deed it is for (the benefit of) his own self, and whosoever does evil, it is against his own self, and your Lord is not at all unjust to (His) slaves”
Isn’t it at a time of the human history, one single man(Galileo) believed that the earth was round and he stood to face the world with what he believes in, which at that time sounded completely crazy, however after a long time what he believed in turned to be the truth. People at that time were not aware of the roundness
of the earth, but at least one was aware of that.

 “Every nation has a messenger. Once their messenger has come, judgment will be passed upon them in all fairness and they will not be wronged. They will say: "When will this promise be, if you have been so truthful?" SAY: "I control no harm nor any advantage by myself, except concerning whatever God may wish. Each nation has a deadline: whenever their deadline comes, they will not postpone it for an hour nor will they advance it.” {chapter Jonah}
 


( Talker ) Here is where the so called “Holy Bible ", was to be a guide so to speak and in general, has been misinterpreted and incorrectly used.

{Marwa} When I was still at school (2 years ago), teachers (if not all but most of them) were so keen to provide us with the information we, as students, needed to pass exams, some would provide past exam papers for us to practice, draw our attention to common mistakes students usually make during final exams, and they would make sure that the books we learn from are the most comprehensive, with the most recent information, and lay information in a way that  the bright ones and those with normal intelligence would understand.
 Students who aimed only to pass, did not that much care for the best source of information, that covers all the material they need to know for their final exams, while those who preferred to repeat yr 12 again, thinking that school is more fun than joining the university, the issue of whether the information in the sources they learnt from, were true or not, or whether the material was changed by more accurate ones, was not completely their concern.

 Although teachers were continuously advising them and warning them (because they were their own students and as I believe they wanted them to pass) but as it said there is no life to whom you are calling. There was also a group of intelligent students, whom if they at times knew the answers of very difficult questions, they gave themselves an exaggerated pride, and unfortunately misused their intelligence. And usually when teachers gave us very important notes, they ignored, thinking that intelligence they could tackle any question in the exams. However, those whom their ambition was to be among the exceptional students, made sure that they understand everything they have been taught (no matter how bright they were), and not only to memorize and not to think, for they knew that there would be some practical or tricky questions, which differentiate between those who completely understand the subject by all their senses and those who do not.
 
  So if the teachers tried their best, by giving the best they can, to help all students pass exams which if someone fails in them, do not mean the end of the world, what about then the real, actual exam (our life)? This long exam that we all attend and we can not rewrite it again. You take this exam only once, and we will have time till our souls leave our bodies.
What I want to reach to: Is it from the just and logic that we are left with misinterpreted book to use as a source to help us pass the real exam?
Isn’t it that whenever scientists arrive to a new discovery about ideas and theories they thought were right but turned to be the opposite, they quickly publish the new discoveries in journals to the public, so to tell them what’s actually the truth?
What about the Creator then, who brought us here?

If his servants ( human beings) such as teachers really care about there students, and try at most of the time to educate them the accurate material, so to help them in their coming life, Does any one think that people might think better than their Lord??

Is it possible that God was not aware of the harm his slaves will carry out to each other and to life as a whole, and that they might interpret the words of the book “The Bible and before it The Torah?

 “We did not create Heaven and Earth and anything in between them just by playing around. We have created them both only [to reveal] the Truth, even though most of them do not realize it.” (Chapter the smoke 44:39)

 




( Talker )  Nicely worded and very commendable. The word “loyal " is or can prove to be troublesome though. If one is “loyal” to an incorrect tenet, then we are right back where the original "wrongness” started.

(Marwa) what I meant by being 100% loyal to God is that, if you really want to find the most straight, paved, shortcut path to your Lord, and you keep focusing all your time that you want to discover that path before leaving this life, then I am telling you that for definite, definite, definite God will not leave you lost. Even if takes years.
Prophet Noah (peace be upon him) stayed 9500 years calling people to God’s way, and in all these years he never mistrusted God, or thought that God was not by his side.
That’s why God has selected them to be Prophets. Being a prophet means you have to be very patient and that’s why God praises them. So if we want to be guided we have to see how prophets were.
It might be that your grand father perceived every single word in the Bible as God’s word. Then you came and saw that it is impossible that The Bible was not interpreted by the hands of humans. And who knows a time might come where your grand sons or the generations after them will be in comfort of all this confusions and troubles, as they will be living within the truth God chosen for all worlds.

 

[marwa]

 I realized that I made a mistake. Actually prophet Noah(Peace be upon him) kept calling his people to God for 950 years and not 9500.