Omprem
Reality Level 1
Posts: 2
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« Reply #135 on: September 08, 2010, 11:40:14 » |
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Yes, the so called Holy Bible is brought into play, often with highly conflicting viewpoints. Each bible presenter holds dearly and tightly to what they actually believe is valid. Reading of the Holy Bible, falls into a category that would / could be classified as a, murder, genocide, rape, hope, dispair, impaling, ethnic cleansing, and political novel.
All scriptures of all religions are subject to different viewpoints. The problems lies with whether or not the scripture is read literally or not, how aware the reader is that his/her conditionings and prejudices influence interpretations, and whether a 'viewpoint' is formed or whether the reader is continues to allow himself/herself to be moved forward by the intention of the scripture.
Just reading that ones Creator, caused himself to be born and crucified to make up for his having made a creation mistake, and some one needs to suffer for it boggles my mind.
It is not God made a 'creation mistake', but rather that Jesus came to demonstrate free will, that one can choose to identify with ultimate reality or not. And that it is not an easy matter to overcome bias, whether one's own or not, and eventually become aware of ultimate reality.
More, as I see it, problems come up, when we start assigning human qualities to God, and then question why the messed up conditions of the world, and why God allows these conditions.
I am in total agreement that assigning human qualities to God creates huge problems. Assigning those qualities is, however, is an attempt to develop a personal, devotional relationship with God and is a central part of Bhakti Yoga for example. It does seem to carry more disadvantages than benefits though. Common sense thinking shatters the various concepts they mention, are they speaking on alternate / parallel plains of existence.
My favorite comment on 'common sense' is by Einstein, who said, 'Common sense is the collections of prejudices that you acquired by the age of 18. |
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juliainkc
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« Reply #136 on: September 08, 2010, 12:41:36 » |
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Hello OmPrem,  A very warm welcome to the forums. Thank you for participating in here! I genuinely InJoyed your sharing. In re-reading your wonderful response OmPrem, to your Einstein quote, a thought arises from 'Women Who Run With the Wolves', the idea that 'we die a thousand deaths before we ever reach twenty.' Looking forward to hearing more about you and your way ~ Folks, I am really InJoying the Energy flowing in this forum. It's absolutely wonderful and thank All you Light Beings for focusing on this intention as One in Mind ~ Agreement. Delightful! It's very noticeable as is the 'sounds' I am hearing right now! Blessings of this day InLove, Julia  |
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 12:48:38 by juliainkc »
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'...And when you have turned back to Me, strengthen your brothers.' Luke 22:32b
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Talker
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« Reply #137 on: September 08, 2010, 13:48:06 » |
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Hello Omprem,
That a conversational tone is used, as opposed to argumentative, is appreciated.
So with that in mind, I've gone ahead and offer my view on your comments. Yes, the so called Holy Bible is brought into play, often with highly conflicting viewpoints. Each bible presenter holds dearly and tightly to what they actually believe is valid. Reading of the Holy Bible, falls into a category that would / could be classified as a, murder, genocide, rape, hope, dispair, impaling, ethnic cleansing, and political novel.
Omprem:
All scriptures of all religions are subject to different viewpoints. The problems lies with whether or not the scripture is read literally or not, how aware the reader is that his/her conditionings and prejudices influence interpretations, and whether a 'viewpoint' is formed or whether the reader is continues to allow himself/herself to be moved forward by the intention of the scripture. (Talker)When one is reading in the bible about 'murder, genocide, rape, hope, dispair, impaling, ethnic cleansing,' whether literal or otherwise, is not a viewpoint, but supposedly real happenings to ponder upon. (Some items mentioned here, by the way, are in conflict with what the Ten Commandments are stating.) The point in my post, was that the bible writings would make the top of the list seller of a horror novel. ...............................
Just reading that ones Creator, caused himself to be born and crucified to make up for his having made a creation mistake, and some one needs to suffer for it boggles my mind.
Omprem:
It is not God made a 'creation mistake', but rather that Jesus came to demonstrate free will, that one can choose to identify with ultimate reality or not. And that it is not an easy matter to overcome bias, whether one's own or not, and eventually become aware of ultimate reality. (Talker)Two totally different time periods, regards Creation and the time of Jesus as you mention. The bible even mentions at one point that God was 'sorry' for his actions of creation. My original thoughts prevail. Any god that causes pain and death as described in the bible, really needs to rethink its motives. .................................................
More, as I see it, problems come up, when we start assigning human qualities to God, and then question why the messed up conditions of the world, and why God allows these conditions.
Omprem:
I am in total agreement that assigning human qualities to God creates huge problems. Assigning those qualities is, however, is an attempt to develop a personal, devotional relationship with God and is a central part of Bhakti Yoga for example. It does seem to carry more disadvantages than benefits though. (Talker)I agree to a point, yet as read in the bible, (old testament) it would be a 'fear' based relationship, not a love based one......................................................... Common sense thinking shatters the various concepts they mention, are they speaking on alternate / parallel plains of existence.
Omprem:
My favorite comment on 'common sense' is by Einstein, who said, 'Common sense is the collections of prejudices that you acquired by the age of 18.
(Talker)I feel that Einstein was joking and endeavoring to make a serious point.
Some endeavor to place 'common sense' into a broad interpretative course of actions. The simple made complex, due to 'where and how common sense' is being applied, and by whom.
Be Well
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It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply be kind to others.
Be not the sleeper, but the observer, then do.
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juliainkc
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« Reply #138 on: September 08, 2010, 17:05:38 » |
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(Talker)
When one is reading in the bible about 'murder, genocide, rape, hope, dispair, impaling, ethnic cleansing,' whether literal or otherwise, is not a viewpoint, but supposedly real happenings to ponder upon. (Some items mentioned here, by the way, are in conflict with what the Ten Commandments are stating.) The point in my post, was that the bible writings would make the top of the list seller of a horror novel.
This reminds me of one of the first posts I participated in this forums in 'I want the Truth and I'm tired of the Lies and Deceptions' thread... (might've said that backwards) The picture book of stories expressing what a life lived without including this Something other than all human only ways, by not bringing IT into the collaboration of everyday life on planet Earth. What life looks like living totally focused on the outside of the UnSeen Prescience of established Heavenly Order, otherwise known to some as chaotic living... no grounding of ego and soul's union into Spirit child's way of relating by moving inbetween both worlds simultaneously and fluidly ~ this is another way of seeing what a totally physically based existence looks like without including the cooperation of any possible Greater Genius behind it all idea. Just a view of what I sense from my perceptions flowing in reading through the 'old testament' or 'creed' ~ the picture story in its unfolding revealing what is in the Center of the bloom ~
(Talker)
Two totally different time periods, regards Creation and the time of Jesus as you mention. The bible even mentions at one point that God was 'sorry' for his actions of creation. My original thoughts prevail. Any god that causes pain and death as described in the bible, really needs to rethink its motives.
Question, if this Jesus was, as OmPrem was suggesting in what I am sensing in his sharing, was exampling free will by saying he had come to restore relationship to its original position of there Being Only One here underneath all the costumes and roles, as in already established relationship, just forgotten through focusing more on the play and characters as moving without noticing where the animation was from originally to get the whole picture, and showing how to use one's free will and what it's purpose is for... to make a choice. This is my choice to believe this, I am free to believe what I believe.... each one fills in their own blank and is free when one own's up to one own choice (s). I can freely choose to believe, decide, that God can and does accidently hurt and kill and people or I choose to believe that this is what the message is regarding the definition of sin - separation from One's Self. The One That I Am. Which one of these ideas leads me to freedom from fear? That is my question because once I stand more in this idea, it feeds the rest. The ground I walk upon is solid while the light waves are reflecting off the surfaces of the images, I walk right through the waves of energy waving the road knowing the road is sure footed underneath the soul of my grounding my physical body, aligned with all the Energy bodies or fields in me into One Endless Field that is so vast, it is incomprehensible to a limited form for viewing our Infinite selves from. Which of these thoughts can I use my free will to set me free? Which idea leads one to freedom and in freedom experience peace as the authentication of being right withIn OneSelf? Only by experiencing It, is all it takes to shift ones thought processes that gives one the faith to keep believing It is 'there' until one meets up with IT enough times to remove all doubt that IT is where IT has always been. Nowhere or everywhere or right here right now... From my own choosing and decisions made, my life reflects the choices of my one foundational belief, the bed I plant all my seeds into. The bed being my choice of soil. Love for me is not ooey gooey, soft and chewy in ITs Essence, this is a flavor, a spice, an attribute of experiencing this Love that is woven into every experience if we are intuned to ITs One of a Kind flavor. It's distinct, noticeable and cannot be compared with anything else. There is no comparison because one has no reason to choose it, one just does because Love ItSelf draws one to It in genuine motive. And I find that it doesn't look a whole lot like the idea that was experienced and expressed through my experiences that have slowly turned this girl's eyes around... The Voice may have a melodic sound however it is the energy of sound from the origin of breath that gives it its resonance. Deep breathing Aware and 'forgetting' ITSELF at the same time. InJoying the view and ride with a boundless view, all in this little space. Now, if I forget about this, it sets me on fear cycle, always on edge and running at full speed away from IT. I am more intuned to the sciencing of water than being water myself. This leads me to experiencing being a fish drowning in water. I have felt this way. Another question...how does time play a factor in the message then? Because in what I understand, there is a place where time is not so much a contributing factor at all, I call this a timeless living message in human language. That is the message for me, that we are timeless living messages of The One Self. I am open to rethinking about such things and being willing to be open to a different view and the is when I ask questions out loud and observe the flow of InComing information. My questions are genuinely being asked with respect to grow with you my Beloved Talker. Truth. So, next question, how does one reconcile this idea with God causing sorrow and death even accidently when Jesus is saying God is Just? Digging deeper here, random acts and Divine Order... expressed above in my going through progressions of shifts in these ideas ~ Omprem:
I am in total agreement that assigning human qualities to God creates huge problems. Assigning those qualities is, however, is an attempt to develop a personal, devotional relationship with God and is a central part of Bhakti Yoga for example. It does seem to carry more disadvantages than benefits though.
(Talker)
I agree to a point, yet as read in the bible, (old testament) it would be a 'fear' based relationship, not a love based one.
I agree Talker. And I see it as, Jesus, OmPrem, he came to example that it was the other way around. Shifting positions from having to make great efforts to reach this 'God' to have a stable and trusting relationship with It or just agree with Its Original Sound, Its Decree of I Am in all of this, It hasn't even stopped resounding, if you listen you will hear it very clearly and feel it all the way through Its Breath that is so unlike our thoughts of breathing here, it is difficult to imagine a breath that has no beginning or end to it really in this physically breathed reality ~ Just my thoughts regarding turning one's eyesight around into seeing in the other way of seeing and then what comes from this is seeing straight. All is well with Divine Intelligent Genius, the I Am THAT One. Humanly speaking Tower of Strength and Trust. You Can Trust in Me, is beneficial for human language because giving of one's life for another is the greatest thing a human can do for another. And for a complete 'stranger' even more mysteriously a wonder...which leads into questions of asking about pre-destination, and fore knowing and ...
(Talker)
I feel that Einstein was joking and endeavoring to make a serious point.
Some endeavor to place 'common sense' into a broad interpretative course of actions. The simple made complex, due to 'where and how common sense' is being applied, and by whom.
Be Well
Common sense... hmm... seeing that one in a shift I am experiencing right now ~ Thank you Talker truly for what you share here. I love the unfolding flow ~ Namasté InLove's Temple ~ Julia  |
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 17:14:59 by juliainkc »
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'...And when you have turned back to Me, strengthen your brothers.' Luke 22:32b
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Talker
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« Reply #139 on: September 08, 2010, 18:16:50 » |
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Hello Julia,
Enjoyed reading your responses to my comments to OmPrem. Deep flow in progress, far beyond the typical, shall I say, religious, conversation.
As were OmPrem's, your comments are well thought out and expressed.
Would be a min-book reply, were I to endeavor a response to your post 'as is'.
I see dozens of inquiring questions, but to avoid the min-book post, am hesitant to reply.
Were you to winnow your comments into actual questions, what would that question list read like! With those already asked as a question, would you consider redoing your post and/or actually posing the individual questions where, and as appropriate to the rest written.
Otherwise will have to toss the min-book post at you, and already can hear the 'oh no, not one of those again'. Ha
Be Well
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It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply be kind to others.
Be not the sleeper, but the observer, then do.
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juliainkc
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« Reply #140 on: September 08, 2010, 19:39:22 » |
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 Gotcha Talker!  Hello Julia,
Enjoyed reading your responses to my comments to OmPrem. Deep flow in progress, far beyond the typical, shall I say, religious, conversation.
As were OmPrem's, your comments are well thought out and expressed.
Would be a min-book reply, were I to endeavor a response to your post 'as is'.
I see dozens of inquiring questions, but to avoid the min-book post, am hesitant to reply.
Were you to winnow your comments into actual questions, what would that question list read like! With those already asked as a question, would you consider redoing your post and/or actually posing the individual questions where, and as appropriate to the rest written.
Otherwise will have to toss the min-book post at you, and already can hear the 'oh no, not one of those again'. Ha
Be Well
The questions were being asked from where I am perceiving in this moment and being open to you seeing where I am coming from so ... to evolve in my understanding ~ Questions woven into my last shared post: Which one of these ideas leads me to freedom from fear? How is my free will of any use if based from the idea of a God accidentally hurting and killing people or is it from a God is the God of the Living idea as was spoken about from the life lived, known as the 'Jesus' Story on planet earth? Where is the basis of the real story coming from is what I am asking if we say that Jesus did not exist (maybe not as being known by this name which came later) and never said these things. Is this a possible idea of what created a split in the mind? A possible turning something around in the message that has gone on for so long that now it is accepted as a definite possibility that can keep ones in a state of distrustfulness? Where is the All Power of the Universe coming from by oops, oh wow, I am so sorry, I did not mean to hurt you is what I am asking in this idea... I mean, wow, I find and can feel absolutely no comfort in the idea of a Source that is supposedly All Knowing, Ever Present and All Seeing making something appear one way while supposedly saying another...either way of these two views... if we are being 'called' to Trust in something we cannot necessarily see yet we see IT as being responsible for what IT is saying never really happened in ITs Mind. This is my question honestly being asked. Which of these thoughts can I use my free will to set me free from the fear of this thought or idea, is there one? Which idea leads one into freedom and in this freedom experience peace as the authentication of being right withIn OneSelf with this All that Is? Is it possible to say that in this idea does the possibility now exists that IT might just be a farce? How does time play a factor in the message then? From the old testament view and the new testament view? What would the purpose be of 'Jesus' ever living as an example, an example of what? I am genuinely asking and my voice remains soft in my asking these questions openly without any other motive but to understand what is the idea behind this way of thinking about these things. Yes, that mini book is starting to sound like a likely response.   how does one reconcile this idea with God causing sorrow and death even accidently when Jesus is saying God is Just as in being the sustenance of the Living. Only while one experiences what life is on planet earth? If so, then the possibility now exists that anyone outside of this idea is speaking falsely regarding life after life... I know, sounds like I am making things complicated here, yet this is not genuinely my intention, this is the questions I fired out in my process of wanting to get clear of what I had no earthly explanations for... So, okay Talker, what are your thoughts on these? Ha! Being Restful and Listening respectfully to the response, Love and hugs, Julia
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'...And when you have turned back to Me, strengthen your brothers.' Luke 22:32b
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Talker
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« Reply #141 on: September 08, 2010, 21:10:50 » |
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Ha, Julia, I was close in stating 'dozens of questions'. Were actually seventeen questions. Legitimate questions, that had caused me in the past decades, to really dig for some 'degree' of understanding regards these type of questions. While answers or seemingly good answers, were arrived at, they are of course, all from my own point of 'understanding. If my truth, agrees with any other, is up for grabs. My 'Truth is like a Rubber Band' blog post reflects that issue. Now, will need to point out here, that until 16th of Sept, I will be tight on a special learning curve, time wise. So bear with me on getting a response back. Meanwhile if any are so inclined, feel free to jump on board with your thoughts, regards Julia's questons. Really enjoy conversations of this nature. No bones to pick, no axe to grind. just a good exchanges of 'how do you/I see it all point of view. Be Well http://www.thetalker.org/archives/234/2-truth-is-like-a-rubber-band-2/ |
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 21:35:01 by Talker »
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It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply be kind to others.
Be not the sleeper, but the observer, then do.
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juliainkc
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« Reply #142 on: September 08, 2010, 21:41:32 » |
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Ha, Julia, I was close in stating 'dozens of questions'. Were actually seventeen questions. Legitimate questions, that had caused me in the past decades, to really dig for some 'degree' of understanding regards these type of questions. While answers or seemingly good answers, were arrived at, they are of course, all from my own point of 'understanding. If my truth, agrees with any other, is up for grabs. My 'Truth is like a Rubber Band' blog post reflects that issue. Now, will need to point out here, that until 16th of Sept, I will be tight on a special learning curve, time wise. So bear with me on getting a response back. Meanwhile if any are so inclined, feel free to jump on board with your thoughts, regards Julia's questons. Really enjoy conversations of this nature. No bones to pick, no axe to grind. just a good exchanges of 'how do you/I see it all point of view. Be Well http://www.thetalker.org/archives/234/2-truth-is-like-a-rubber-band-2/Gives deeper meaning to not so much being about looking at one another while heading in the same direction ~ |
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 21:45:00 by juliainkc »
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'...And when you have turned back to Me, strengthen your brothers.' Luke 22:32b
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Talker
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« Reply #143 on: November 13, 2010, 12:25:28 » |
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Well now, It has been quite the ride moderating within this forum.
There were many high points that made my day.
Of course there were a few occasions that muddied the waters. Certain expositions led to the pro and con of numerous interesting subjects. Umbrage toward others and yes, even toward moderators, when beliefs clashed.
Contrary to some comments received no censorship of posts ever took place. Well 'ever' should read as 'rare', as certain graphic sexual descriptions and personal attacks got immediate attention and correction with behind the scenes moderator action.
Moderator activities is not 'one' person making decisions on how or what needs to be applied for a given incident. It is by mutual consensus that all corrective actions take place. The occasional misstep is of no concern, it is only when warning PM messages are repeatedly ignored that serious consequences resulted.
To Adrian, thank you for bringing light into those darkened areas of physical and spiritual awareness.
To my fellow moderators, thank you for the strength of your hands upon the tiller.
To the forum members, hugs and love in your journey.
It has been an honor and a privilege to serve you
I now leave the moderator position.
Adieu
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It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply be kind to others.
Be not the sleeper, but the observer, then do.
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Minalora
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« Reply #144 on: November 16, 2010, 10:38:27 » |
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Well now, It has been quite the ride moderating within this forum.
There were many high points that made my day.
Of course there were a few occasions that muddied the waters. Certain expositions led to the pro and con of numerous interesting subjects. Umbrage toward others and yes, even toward moderators, when beliefs clashed.
Contrary to some comments received no censorship of posts ever took place. Well 'ever' should read as 'rare', as certain graphic sexual descriptions and personal attacks got immediate attention and correction with behind the scenes moderator action.
Moderator activities is not 'one' person making decisions on how or what needs to be applied for a given incident. It is by mutual consensus that all corrective actions take place. The occasional misstep is of no concern, it is only when warning PM messages are repeatedly ignored that serious consequences resulted.
To Adrian, thank you for bringing light into those darkened areas of physical and spiritual awareness.
To my fellow moderators, thank you for the strength of your hands upon the tiller.
To the forum members, hugs and love in your journey.
It has been an honor and a privilege to serve you
I now leave the moderator position.
Adieu
Ahhh Beloved Friend, Although I am sad to see you leaving I respect your choosing. I have to tell you that I am blessed beyond imagination to have come to know you, and meeting is person has strengthened the knowing on how connected our souls are. Thank you very much for the wisdom that you have brought to this place. It was a rare sight indeed - I have to end this now because of allowing the needed tear to come out. Thank you Beloved Talker for all that you are - because of you I am much richer. Thank you Beloved Adrian for creating a wonderful stage for meeting of kindred souls. All Love .... |
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juliainkc
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« Reply #145 on: November 18, 2010, 16:16:51 » |
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Dear Beloved Talker, I appreciate you for your faithful presence in the forums and for being uniquely you. While distance may appear to happen in the physical world, a friend is always near in heart. ♥May the seeds that have fallen upon an open tilled field be blown by the soft warm winds of Spirit and bear much fruit. Laura, what a beautiful expression. I appreciate your heart warming expression. Everyone, while Talker may be moving forward from here, we can peek in and say hi to him through his blog; http://www.thetalker.org/I have InJoyed walking with you through the process and growing from the experience my dear friend. Many Blessings on all you endeavor, Be Well InLove Beloved Talker!! ♥ Julia ♥ |
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'...And when you have turned back to Me, strengthen your brothers.' Luke 22:32b
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DH
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« Reply #146 on: November 18, 2010, 22:19:39 » |
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Talker, Thanks for all of your efforts, must certainly offered in love. Your moderator work will be missed. God bless you in your new direction. |
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“A very great vision is needed and the one who has it must follow it as the eagle seeks the deepest blue of the sky.” Crazy Horse, Sioux Chief
"Use your imagination not to scare yourself to death but to inspire yourself to life." Adele Brookman
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Talker
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« Reply #147 on: December 02, 2010, 20:28:57 » |
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Thank you Laura, Julia, and DH, for the kind words.
That you all experience the beautiful richness Source has granted us.
Hugs and Be Well
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It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply be kind to others.
Be not the sleeper, but the observer, then do.
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Talker
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« Reply #148 on: December 17, 2010, 20:57:12 » |
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Living, loving and learning is part of every day,
open mind, open heart,
is always the perfect start,
be positive, keep positive, to hold still the sway,
that's met, each day,
of negative thinking, that one is sinking,
while facing each new day,
Thought by thought, we wend our way,
setting the path, we face each day,
thoughts, unless guarded, can steal the weal,
of the perfect day,
is not Source that strayed, so be aware,
that the perfect start, that perfect day,
always starts with you. |
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It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply be kind to others.
Be not the sleeper, but the observer, then do.
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Minalora
Guest
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« Reply #149 on: December 18, 2010, 00:39:26 » |
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Thank you Beloved Talker for the beautiful ending of my day the poetic style.
♥
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