Hi Julia,
I played the same salvation game with my ex - with the same results. Only when I chose to not ' save her ' she saw it a not loving her or caring anymore. I would not engage the ' debates ' anymore or allow my salvation button to be pushed.
We receive epiphanies though - do we not?
I was sitting with her one morning and she was going on and on about how everyone at work was a back stabbing bitch, always talking about each other behind their backs, saying nice things to their face - then saying the opposite when they left. She went onto to explain all the flaws and bad characteristics of each person there. Winding it up with " How can people be like that ? "
" Ah - you mean like this - right now? You have done just that for the last hour, and everyday when you get home, you share only the same type of information. "
OK - she was done talking to me then.
I found direct reflection when engaged in the conflict with her, and others in my life. Parents see this often in things the kids say and do that reflects the parents behavior's. It can be quite ' sobering ' to see yourself on anothers actions and words.
As in my stopping to help push the car, direct the trucker to his destination, one could see this as a desire ' save ' them, or just as people helping people. We can over think these things to distraction and even unto dis-ease.
I liked the feeling of being able to help when the situation was presented, because I liked how it felt when others reached out to help me. Nor will I sit in contemplation of its possibly being a flaw of my character or design.
I no longer allow me ex to engage me in conflict, so she no longer spends much time talking to me. Reflection can be the old game of ' bait and switch ' where the martyr is actually the controller.
WithIN Love
Darrell
Hi Darrell

Although you addressed yourself to Julia I can't help myself relating so much to your story. Like you I was raised into a religious background where the 'sacrifice and martyrdom' was the only way to make yourself worthy of God's favour; however the weirdest thing I was also raised as an atheist living in a socialist system. You can begin to picture the 2 sides of my belief personality formed since childhood: giving-in and rebelling.
Both at the same time.
Not that we humans don't have this inside however through my upbringing it was reinforced by a belief system even further.
Anyway, my ex was a cupfull of negativity. I tell you many at times (when I realised what I was experiencing) I would think:
- "Man!! if there was any job out geared on troubleshooting people he would be ideal at it."
Our separation quest was not an easy or a calm one either. I would have to stop here before I go into writing a novel. ..lol..
Anyway in those dark times when I realised I can't see any light in it or the end of the tunnel, I grabbed about any kind and form of help I could. Books, helpful people, and finally one fateful day the spiritual path.
Coming to why I wanted to answer to you (so badly) is related to what you said here (and I apologise because I know you won't like it very much, because there was a time when I heard the same thing and I was revolting inside):
You have done just that for the last hour, and everyday when you get home, you share only the same type of information.
First I want congratulate you for standing up for yourself and not letting yourself dragged into her bitching world. Or in other words 'reacting' in a form or another. But

.. what you have done here is the fact that you shamed her. True in a very nice, detached, from a superior position of calm way - clearly a place she's never been nor she knew it exists.
Again.. I can't help now envisioning my ex.
What I learned later on (after behaving just like you) is the power of using the word "I" instead of "You". And using it with love, not with blame, not with self-defense.
Just try to put yourself in your ex mind and hear this version instead of the previous one:
I understand your frustration but please understand that I feel very stressed hearing you going at this for the last hour, and everyday when you get home, and you share only the same type of information. I cannot take it anymore being immersed in your negative world. Please try to understand that I want no more part of this.
I can't even have to think that what normally will occur next would fall into alignment with a Budhist tenet - or
"following your thought and words with the right action". And this would simply mean keeping true to your words with the right action of following through: just walking out. Honouring yourself (thoughts/feelings and words).
This is the lesson that I learned from my ex. and I paid for it with 22 years of my life. If I knew it back then obviously I would have not hanged out for 22 years and play the martyrdom act to my ego (how pure and innocent we are in the face of the other person darkness).
If I knew it back then... I would have had the strength to walk out of ANY situation or person that would not serve my higher-self.
If I knew it back then I would have perhaps made the right choice and give my children a different kind of father... a different kind of a family and a more harmonious way of living...
If...
But then ... "What do I know anyway?" What do I know what kind of lessons they are supposed to learn? my ex...my children...
Reflection can be the old game of ' bait and switch ' where the martyr is actually the controller.
There is no such thing as martyrdom and there isn't any benefit in changing from a controlled one into a controller. Because both play tribute to same ego.
At every time and moment in our lives we have a choice: the choice to chose peace. To be a host to God (our higher-self) or a hostage to ego
she no longer spends much time talking to me
....
Same situation with my ex. After shutting him down with my pristine attitude there's no wonder that he can't find in him the energy to talk to me. (In his mind ..How can he measure up anyway? and if he can't why even try... )
In conclusion my beloved Darrell ...sigh... please try to find within yourself the power of forgiving me for bitching at you.
trust that I love you beyond your wildest dreams!!! - Laura ( I really do )