Muses, Madmen, and Prophets

[Questioner]

Has anyone read or heard of the new book:

Muses, Madmen, and Prophets: Rethinking the History, Science, and Meaning of Auditory Hallucination -- By Daniel B. Smith

If so, what do you think?

I have not read it yet, but I did peruse it at the library; it looks like it is a very informative and unbiased book, and if nothing else, it brings the "mysteries of consciousness" into mainstream conversation, and highlights some of the peculiarities of human inner reality: specifically, the topic of "hearing voices" that are generated from inside our minds as opposed to hearing voices that are generated from an external source.

From what I can tell so far, it is already garnering some credible attention, and it just came out in the last month or so...

Some reviews are at:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/1594201102/ref=dp_proddesc_0/102-3208951-2791346?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/Muses-Madmen-Prophets-Rethinking-Hallucination/dp/1594201102

[seen Here]

Hi,
Sounds like it might be on the same theme as Julian Jaynes book 'The Evolution of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind'. This asserts that self awareness, as distinct from awareness, arose in mankind only two or three thousand years ago. Prior to that one half of the brain was more directly linked to the subconscious, where information was processed outside the awareness of the individual. Processed information was then communicated from the subconscious through 'its' side of the brain to the half of the brain dealing with conscious awareness as 'voices in the head'. These were interpreted as being the voices of the gods or ancestors but were in fact the individual's own subconsciously processed decisions and opinions. Modern man is more detached from the subconscious and instead has a self referencing awareness giving rise to an ego and the internal narrative. The subconscious is still there of course but weaker and communicates itself to the awareness more in the 'ah-ha' moment. It is speculated that people who hear voices, such as schizophrenics, are experiencing a throwback to the earlier configuration. Jaynes is a bit heavy but well worth the effort.

seen Here

[Questioner]

seen Here,

Yes, Jaynes is most definitely mentioned in the book, as well as William James, et al, who have been acknowledged for their excellent scholarship, but academically ostracized because their scholarship and personal views have directly challenged the traditional model of academic study. That traditional model having placed Judeo-Christianity at the indisputable helm of university curricular studies, with Jesus as the co-pilot of the Humanities and Newton as the co-pilot of the Sciences.

This is also why Freud has been incorporated into the Humanities, but Jung is avoided (by all except the most liberal of colleges), why Aristotle has remained the favored "ism" over Plato and his abstraction "ism", and why Quantum Physics is only being addressed through its mechanical applications, steering well-clear of all esoteric speculations.
 
I guess you could say that these academic "winners" and "losers" are, on a micro-level, tests of "appeals to authority" among peers, that are ultimately judged, on a macro-level, by "appeal to the sovereign authority" of the Judeo-Christian tradition. Aristotle, Freud, Quantum Mechanics do not directly conflict with a Biblical Weltanschauung (biblical worldview), but Plato, Jung, and Fred Allen Wolf most definitely do!--primarily because their scholarship begs way too many "questions"!!!

Until finding this book, I had never heard of Jaynes, but from what little I have learned just this past week, your post seems to be a very well written abstract review of his philosophical/anthropological theory.

Now, for my Questions!!!!

Recap from your post:

[Jaynes] asserts that self  awareness, as distinct from awareness, arose in mankind only two or three thousand years ago. Prior to that one half of the brain was more directly linked to the subconscious, where information was processed outside the awareness of the individual. Processed information was then communicated from the subconscious through 'its' side of the brain to the half of the brain dealing with conscious awareness as 'voices in the head'. These were interpreted as being the voices of the gods or ancestors but were in fact the individual's own subconsciously processed decisions and opinions. Modern man is more detached from the subconscious and instead has a self referencing awareness giving rise to an ego and the internal narrative. The subconscious is still there of course but weaker and communicates itself to the awareness more in the 'ah-ha' moment.

Okay, I can dig it to this point with my edit strike, but:

It is speculated that people who hear voices, such as schizophrenics, are experiencing a throwback to the earlier configuration.

I am, by nature , compelled to challenge such speculation and ask:

What prevents this from being the opposite case? What if "voice-hearing" is an intrinsic aspect--necessary to--being a complete human being? 

What if the forced social-political-religious influence of the Roman-Judeo-Christian world view has "interrupted" the natural evolution of the human person by "shutting off" the natural connection to our subconscious? 

That is, vis-a-vis the traditional sovereign authority of accepted religious thought and belief being so pervasive that it makes it appear that those who are not bound by such influences, e.g. "voice hearers", are representative of the "primitive" or "unnatural", rather than the "normal" and "natural" human being???

In that same vein, what if the fracturing structure of the current Judeo-Christian world view is actually opening the way for the reactivation of the "natural evolution of humanity"?

In other words, could it be the case that the rapidly declining status of western religion is actually making it possible for the emergence of the "evolution of thought" that is necessary for the reactivation of the natural "evolution of humanity" to occur in earnest?

This would, hopefully, make the thoughts of the currently ostracized thinkers (some of which were named above) to come to the center of the academic endeavor where they should have been all along?

Wonderful questions!!! 

Thanks for your response seen Here!!!

 

[seen Here]

Hi Questioner,

Sounds like we are on similar tracks.

It is some while since I read Jaynes’ book and I keep meaning to give it another run – it being the sort of book that needs it. Assuming for the sake of argument that he is right, as I suspect he is………

Jaynes’ asserts that the modern inward looking, self-referencing self-consciousness arose because changes in world and societal conditions gave rise to complexities of human need and interaction that favoured such consciously engaged thinking. The change was seen in society as what we now call ‘The Fall of Man’ or the taking of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. Whether or not this amounts to a better configuration than the old one is probably irrelevant – it was just natural selection at work in the face of circumstances.

For some while both forms of consciousness were in operation, probably with many individuals switching between modes, perhaps born in the earlier configuration and then forced into the latter by mental feedback-loops and societal conditioning. Later still, those who still exhibited the earlier form came to be seen as defective, ‘possessed’ and dangerous. They came to be persecuted and killed, further entrenching the change. Today we merely label such people ‘mad’ and put them on medication… (and I don’t mean to belittle the real suffering undergone by some people who hear voices).

In very recent years people have begun to recognize once again the power and importance of the sub-conscious. We have seen it in quantum physics where it is now seen – grudgingly – as the principal driver of wave-form collapse, creating what we perceive as reality. We have also seen it come to popular awareness (in a rather simple and dubious way) in the run-away success of The Secret.

It seems possible to me that things such as astral travel, sight of inner dimensions, the Law of Attraction and the like, experienced and used by people on the board, also work through similar mechanisms to the earlier consciousness. Perhaps (I’m only speculating) the earlier configuration is better suited to this sort of experience and to personal development as a ‘complete human being’ through it.

So, does this mean that the new self-awareness amounts to an interruption in our natural development? That’s probably harsh, since the modern configuration has its benefits. We could not have built a technological society without it and we might not have survived as a race at all unless we submitted to the change. You say “…what if the fracturing structure of the current Judeo-Christian world view is actually opening the way for the reactivation of the "natural evolution of humanity"? Yes, that’s my speculation too.

Many people on this group are here not because of what they believe or have heard about but because of the adventures in extended consciousness that they have actually experienced (religion evolving into spirituality). This is something that has been happening more and more widely since the collapse in the authority of orthodox religion and has exploded since the coming of the internet. Probably it is a matter of wider consensual awareness unfolding a new reality through our collective subconscious. I think this is neither a partial return to the old ways nor are a development of self-awareness as such, but is a new synthesis of the two. If that is true then the evolution of modern consciousness may not have been an interruption in our natural development but a necessary prerequisite to where we’re going next. I’m not offering a fixed viewpoint here you understand…  it’s very much ‘work in progress’. 

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind for an overview of Jaynes’ theory. There are several books mentioned there that look like worth following up….

Regards,
seen Here

[melody]

What is the origin of the inner “voices” or the supernatural phenomena? What comes from our own heads and imagination, and what really comes from outside of us?

Human mind is a fascinating instrument. It can imagine all sorts of things, many of them having no counterpart in the reality. For instance, it can create Harry Potter and all the fantastic virtual reality that goes with it. It can also project the personal psychological reality on the outside world, and believe in it, though this projection has nothing in common with the real world. So, a person can sincerely believe that another person has all sorts of character defects, but is actually projecting his own personal defects (to which he/she is blind) onto another person who does not really have them. This phenomenon is well known in psychology.

What we see out there could be very much determined by what we expect to see, according to our believes, and thus it would be coming from our own heads.

The question is, how to determine which “supernatural” reality do we create with our own minds, and which are the real supernatural forces, existing independently of us, that we are experiencing?

This is a general question. I do not experience any voices in my head (or should I have some   ?). I am just wondering how the “spiritual” experiences that might have been produced within one’s mind - as per books mentioned above - could be distingused from those that are true revelations from the outside, from the higher dimentions.