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Author Topic: Jesus, crucifixion and the resurrection  (Read 2308 times)
Larry
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2009, 20:38:52 »

Brent, I love the questions or scenarios you present. I have noticed that a large portion of American people have great difficulty dealing with guilt. Even when there is no real reason for it. Slavery of Negroes, or the deaths of Jews in Germany. We can see people sacrificing the joy of a "normal" life for God. I'm sure that we can think of more reasons for unnecessary guilt. Some say that Jesus died for our sins and that if we believe this, and accept it, we will go to Heaven. There are all types of colorful vendors selling their own way to salvation through Jesus. It's a profitable business. Some of these idiot's even believe their sales pitch. Source and I will one day sit down together, have a beer, and laugh about guilt.   Larry
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Mina-Laura
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2009, 21:09:50 »

Dear Brent,

Thank you for sharing your research with me, I am glad that you are one of those that doesn't blindly accept everything that is handed over in a persuasive voice. What you say sounds very much like what I have learned a long time ago. It is sad that people fall
This tactic was used for centuries as a method of control, unfortunately religion falls within these criteria.

If you think about it, this is the best way to manipulate people: they find something people care about and fear of loosing it then they create a fear-guilt environment under which the masses happily cave in. Religion as institution, governments ... all fall within these parameters. The masses are angry at something 'some' institution did or didn't do, then another one, carefully designed to replace the previous one is banking on people's hate and dissatisfaction thus starts slandering the prior 'organization'. On a very fertile 'mood' the slandering takes seed and people are in a state of anger and resentment that they believe anything!!!

Classic manipulation: fascism, communism, institutional religion such as extreme Islam, the crazy catholics, the old fashioned Orthodox .. they all fall in same category. No difference in essence.

Actually the easy way to recognise a wave of change is in paying attention to the vibes is sending. Is it trying to educate by liberating people's consciousness or .. is simply making people adhere to a different type of 'creed'. ... ?!?

The Bible Smiley
Perhaps you should try to look at it as a multicoloured canvas of humanity, human consciousness, subconscious, plus a dozage of Fairy Tale, science-fiction with a dash of magic account, etc... - like donno the Star Trek series of 2000 years ago ... lol... perhaps if you look at it like this you will stop taking it at face value and let your Mind fly free in its imagination. Smiley

When one awakens he/she starts to see beyond the words and grasp the deep meaning. The true Cabalists  will tell you that the whole Torah is written in symbols. Every single story, accurate or not is actually a key to/ for people - to finding themselves.

For instance the story of Moses - Egypt is a symbol of the Ego, the Jews is us - each and every one of us in search for our true identity and breaking free from Ego's grip, Moses is the illumination factor in which the hand of the Divine acts to help us find the light, however is never a direct intervention; because if it is direct it will defeat it's purpose.

And yes you are correct Bible was used for control but if you think about it, it was not what is written in the Bible but rather the people's flavour they put and how they interpret the things.

The truth is this stands in the many Christians that saw the light and yet at the same time they were at odds with the officials. Many of the 'saints' that are now revered by the Catholic Church were at some point excommunicated, accused of being in liege with the Devil etc..

Yeshua come to 'liberate' people or to help then think out of the box, the Law as we know it cannot possibly apply and be fair to all circumstances, so  Yeshua encouraged people to find the truth at their core and don't get stuck in the Law as presented by Rabbis with controlling streak.

I know is it hard for people to 'get' what his death represents. Again I would not look at it just as a story... like Moses, Yeshua's death is another symbolism depicting the necessity of dieing to this world (physical, material, fear for body termination and the thinking that the body is all we are) and being re-born to the Spirit as a Spiritual human with unique soul.

With the guilt factor you indeed hit the mark. Going back to what I said before, the dark forces bank on our Ego's faults to keep us in the neverending loop of fear/guilt. You ask forgiveness for what? Indeed forgiveness for the injuries that we brought on our own selves. Our own faulty 'thinking' which created the undesirable situations we find ourselves, then proceeding at not 'sinning' anymore - or thinking only good thoughts void of negativity.

Oh, about the Bible not being complete... I think it was never meant to be. How would anyone get the motivation to grow if everything was handed on a golden platter.

And I give you another mind-bender: how come and why Yeshua never left any written record. He was a scholar... he knew his 'words' will eventually not be recorded line by line as he spoke them...

I bet he could predict even the 'kind' of talk we are having right now Wink

Smiley (thank you again for setting the record straight re the Zeitgeist movie, I think you are a very cool person - I am VERY happy you managed to break free of institutional dogma, yet keep your common sense about this whole shebang ...lol.. )


love
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2009, 10:39:48 »

Good Morning Everyone,

Laura, I deeply InJoyed and resonated with your last post here. Namaste. This was such a heartfelt and beautiful expression. Thank you.


Quote
When one awakens he/she starts to see beyond the words and grasp the deep meaning. The true Cabalists  will tell you that the whole Torah is written in symbols. Every single story, accurate or not is actually a key to/ for people - to finding themselves.


I can only express in kind here as One in Spirit. The hindsight I received like you from all the years of studying the Bible which led me to realizing that this applied to any faith's texts was that so much is hidden or lost or covered over and no amount of studying will ever undo this, it keeps one seeking more information.

I gained in understanding what you share here Laura, it is by looking beyond these things. Seeing with 'Otherworldly' eyes and trusting the sensing and leading. Something inside you is saying yes to what you are reading 'between the lines'.


Quote
For instance the story of Moses - Egypt is a symbol of the Ego, the Jews is us - each and every one of us in search for our true identity and breaking free from Egos's grip, Moses is the illumination factor in which the hand of the Divine acts to help us find the light, however is never a direct intervention; because if it is direct it will defeat it's purpose.


Excellent expression on Moses. Truly. Moses' brother Aaron led the Jewish people into Canaan or the Promised Land as the story goes. They had to cross through the water to the otherside symbolically for cleansing, leaving everything behind to go into the new life already present.

The bridge (the River Jordan) symbolically was the crossing over  into the 'Promised Land'. By the removing, aligning of the log, the undoing of the illusion now opened up by I (eye) being washed free of the dust of debris in the Living Stream and entering The Kingdom of Heaven within. Our Inheritance by Right. Our Home.

Now Single eyed, no more double vision or crosseyed, walleyed, separating one from their 'family of Divine geneology.'

Quote
And yes you are correct Bible was used for control but if you think about it, it was not what is written in the Bible but rather the people's flavour they put and how they interpret the things.

The truth is this stands in the many Christians that saw the light and yet at the same time they were at odds with the officials. Many of the 'saints' that are now revered by the Catholic Church were at some point excommunicated, accused of being in liege with the Devil etc..

Yeshua come to 'liberate' people or to help then think out of the box, the Law as we know it cannot possibly apply and be fair to all circumstances, so  Yeshua encouraged people to find the truth at their core and don't get stuck in the Law as presented by Rabbis with controlling streak.

I know is it hard for people to 'get' what his death represents. Again I would not look at it just as a story... like Moses, Yeshua's death is another symbolism depicting the necessity of dieing to this world (physical, material, fear for body termination and the thinking that the body is all we are) and being re-born to the Spirit as a Spiritual human with unique soul.

Yes, I agree. He came to set the captives free. And he said, 'that unless a seed dies and falls into the ground, there can be no new life that comes from it.' He was willing to show what Life Is so that any who desired to experience it would be able to see by his example of going through the most feared experience of the illusiion here and overcome it as he did.

The bridge, River of Life Stream passing through a temporary experience to realize that it is not real in the authentic sense. There are many claims from all over the world of having seen this one after the crucifixion event. For me this says 'See? You have no thing to fear and death is swallowed up in victory.'  What is victory over death? No death or Being Alive always. Death has been overcome and revealed for what it is, a cloud shaped of ones making believe.

Like walking through a screen and it tears open as you walk through it and realize that the projected images on the screen you once believed without a doubt were immovable real images or solid are not. Yehshua is not the only one who spoke of this, this is in all what is considered Sacred Texts.

I loved this entire post and will end with standing here with you Laura and sharing with Brent on forgiveness to add to your wonderful expression.

To give for in advance. Forgiveness. My eyes have been opened to see it quite differently from the Bible days.

Forgiveness in advance is seeing no reason to forgive because you see no offense to defend. If forgiveness is viewed as this being of an illusive state.
The I beam has been aligned (or blocks, walls and barriers removed) and now instead of being a wall of separated offenses to keep ones out, it is the bridge you cross or step over into freedom in Unity. We decide how high or low our bridges or blocks are and when we desire to lower the defenses and guises and wall with one another and just be ourselves for God or Source or the Universe ...

We claim our rightful innocence as a child in a Father's eye. We wake up to who we are in our Father's eyes.

I edited this after reading Talkers Rhetoric Ramblings. Thank you so much my Beloved Friend.

And thank you for sharing this communion along with me,

Love to you all in Spirit,

Julia







« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 18:47:22 by juliainkc » Logged

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Mina-Laura
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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2009, 21:55:25 »

Dear Julia,


Thank you very much for vibing with me here.


Forgiveness in advance is seeing no reason to forgive because you see no offense to defend.

Amen! Julia you have graduated the Course in Miracles. You are a miracle in itself. A spark of God.

Namaste and LOVE
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« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2009, 22:53:56 »

Hello Dear Laura,

Dear Julia,


Thank you very much for vibing with me here.


Forgiveness in advance is seeing no reason to forgive because you see no offense to defend.

Amen! Julia you have graduated the Course in Miracles. You are a miracle in itself. A spark of God.

Namaste and LOVE

As you are! smiley

Yes, I will say the Course in Miracles has been very helpful in opening up this area as well as expanding my view in many things yet not the only one.

I have come to realize in my life how well the experiences we go through are truly matching what we are uncovering in our exploration of our life experiences of our Authentic nature and like Talker I share my progress through the process in my blog. A me speaking out loud to the Universe to myself. This one was written earlier last year in regards to my experiencing a biggie on forgiveness in my life;

http://www.you-nique-by-design.com/18/

Love to you and All for sharing your uniques perspectives,

Julia
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TheBaron
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2009, 14:50:12 »

(It helps if I post this on the right post wink)

This is interesting, and I would love to see some more of your research if you wouldn't mind finding out more?  I will try to do the same.

It appears you are right about Krishna, although it is harder to research now because if you type in Krishna you get the story of Krishna, if you type in Chrishna you get the comparison of the two, but I'm going to assume that they are one in the same and the comparisons are perhaps a bit skewed?

As far as I understand Buddhism, and some one correct me if I'm wrong, there are many Buddhas, the link you gave I believe is talking about the first Buddha, I don't know?

You do bring up a valid point how people tend to twist things to their advantage no matter whose involved.  I think that Zeitgeist is a great movie to get the mind rolling, although there are other areas that I'm not so sure how I feel about.  I'm not really into government conspiracies personally, although I'm sure they happen from time to time.

I would say there are similarities between the Jesus figure and the list of other patron saints none-the-less and it's a shame that one has to try to create more and ruin the validity.  Or, maybe there's different beliefs between different sects?  I don't honestly know, what I do know is that nothing in this world is Original.  I once heard some one say that only 1% of people in the world will come up with a 'new' idea.  Although what they consider new I'm not sure.  Most ideas are influenced on previous and the Earth is old enough now that we're probably not the first to have this debate or ones similar.

I don't know if it really matters in the long run.  As I've stated previously, I believe that the Bible or the ideas the Bible presents are worth knowing, whether read from the Bible or from a different Mythology.  People tend to get too caught up on the details and they tend to forget the message.  I think perhaps that some people feel robbed of the message if the story isn't true, but they rarely are.

What I do know is that there is something beyond the physical senses.  Is this God or Jesus?  Well I doubt the latter and I'm not sure of the former, what I do know is it's worth looking into.  From my experiences I would say that as long as it encourages Love, it really doesn't matter.  I wouldn't go so far as to say that compassion is God, but there are enough Quantum and Occult Experiments out there to support the benefits of compassion apposed to hate, anger, and the likes.  Even if that's all made up too, atleast life is more enjoyable for everyone involved if you aren't apathetic or a... (to refrain from any sort of vulgar material I will substitute with:) do-do head to everyone around you.

So some one slap me if I'm being naive.

Much Love,
Brandon
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Mina-Laura
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2009, 22:02:23 »

Dear Brandon,


Reading your thoughts "Ecclesiastes" come to my mind Smiley. Wow I was a child when I read it and it made so much sense.


That which has been is that which shall be;
and that which has been done is that which shall be done:
and there is no new thing under the sun.

Is there a thing of which it may be said, “Behold, this is new?”
It has been long ago, in the ages which were before us.

There is no memory of the former; neither shall there be any memory
of the latter that are to come, among those that shall come after.


Man doesn’t know what will be; and that which will be after him, who can tell him?



http://ebible.org/web/Eccl.htm

Smiley

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wavepsychic
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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 21:37:48 »

I just found this post and I didn't read the replies but I just want to put these videos here. They explain where the Crucifix & resurrection comes from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-17BNU7L6g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2009, 15:35:08 »

I just found this post and I didn't read the replies but I just want to put these videos here. They explain where the Crucifix & resurrection comes from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-17BNU7L6g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0

Thanks for sharing.  There are many videos like this and this information seems to be the new black.  I love seeing others that have put some real research in (or at least looked at others'), but it seems that so often people still jump to conclusions or think that they have to be brash and/or rude when presenting the information they have to offer.  Yes, a lot of religious ideals were first Egyptian, but where the Egyptians the first race of people to have a religion?  Not even close.  So thanks again for sharing Wave and just remember that both sides have their truths and errors.
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Blueridge
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2009, 15:50:54 »

One theory I have read, is that the bible is mythology, nothing in it happened in a literal sense, but it was written by highly intelligent beings sent here for that purpose and located in what is now Greece.
They say mythology, yes, but absolutely TRUE, when interpreted correctly, Hidden meanings and parables, for those truly seeking they will find.

I seem to sway from camp to camp, I'm sure y'all know the feeling, Well this sounds so right and correct, and hits a heart string, and than you may come here or some other page, and it also makes sense.
So, who is right? Maybe both, maybe in between somewhere, oh and the time is getting shorter to find that truth, each passing day, our physical  being dies a little more, so is time of the essence?If we don't want to keep coming back here a myriad amount of times to try to get it right.
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2009, 23:15:18 »

Dear Blue,

I do not consider the in your face attitude of those videos to be rude. I am very anti-religious. Religion controls large groups of people through Fear. Fear is the lowest vibration and that is the opposite of what we need!

The Bible isn't whole. Take away the new testament it isn't a part of the real Bible. It isn't an easy task to find Spirituality in the Bible. Its like finding diamonds in a coal mine. There are diamonds to be found but without the proper tool forget it. In other words someone already needs to already have strong intuition, wisdom & a high level of Spirituality to read the Bible correctly and understand its meanings. At the same time one must be able and willing to reject the false hood that found its way into it.

The whole Bible isn't wrong. Its not completely true either. The interpretations certainly aren't usually true either.

The reason I posted those videos was to show people where the Crucifix and resurrection came from. That is what this forum is about.
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TheBaron
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« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2009, 17:28:30 »

Dear Blue,

I do not consider the in your face attitude of those videos to be rude. I am very anti-religious. Religion controls large groups of people through Fear. Fear is the lowest vibration and that is the opposite of what we need!

The Bible isn't whole. Take away the new testament it isn't a part of the real Bible. It isn't an easy task to find Spirituality in the Bible. Its like finding diamonds in a coal mine. There are diamonds to be found but without the proper tool forget it. In other words someone already needs to already have strong intuition, wisdom & a high level of Spirituality to read the Bible correctly and understand its meanings. At the same time one must be able and willing to reject the false hood that found its way into it.

The whole Bible isn't wrong. Its not completely true either. The interpretations certainly aren't usually true either.

The reason I posted those videos was to show people where the Crucifix and resurrection came from. That is what this forum is about.


It was me, not Blue that wrote about that.  The bible is the bible, it's a mythology that teaches moral lessons, if you try to make it more complicated then it is, then you're right, it is false.  There are lessons in everything, if you open yourself to them.

You may be anti-religious, but if you come out guns blazing, whose going to listen to you?  When a preacher gets in your face and screams brimstone and fire do you listen to him?  He may have something knowledgeable to tell you, despite some of his beliefs, but you're turned away because it's too strong.  Also, the Zeitgeist movie I posted earlier talks about where the myths originate from.  Once again, thanks for sharing.
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wavepsychic
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« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2009, 18:31:28 »

Hi Baron,

I completely agree the Bible has Spiritual meanings not literal meanings!

I listen only to my intuition. I listen to what people have to say. I do not believe one needs fear in order to be heard. I respect Adrian and that is why I listen to him. Respect over Fear. I only agree with Adrian because I know intuitively. It isn't because his name is Adrian. I listen to religious people as well I just do not agree.

Peace & Serenity

Louis
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juliainkc
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2009, 19:42:46 »

Hi all,

Listening in to this conversation, I am hmming. Louis my beloved brother, question from your sister here in regards to this;

Hi Baron,

I completely agree the Bible has Spiritual meanings not literal meanings!

I listen only to my intuition. I listen to what people have to say. I do not believe one needs fear in order to be heard. I respect Adrian and that is why I listen to him. Respect over Fear. I only agree with Adrian because I know intuitively. It isn't because his name is Adrian. I listen to religious people as well I just do not agree.

Peace & Serenity

Louis


I agree in asking for Divine Guidance and Discernment. This way you are open to agree with whatever is vibing and not basing it on whether one is being in a religious state of mind, which is a barrier and can close your mind to something that is of value. A throwing the baby out with the bath water kind of thinking. I am speaking here of 'Hearing and Seeing' Intuiting beyond the projection of the one or ones saying it. Which is where intuit lies.

Discernment is a tool that in the beginning is more of a looking for the flaws (fear?) in something, good fruit or deformed fruit. As one uses this tool more and more and becomes more experienced in discerning ones true voice (which btw is innate when one recognizes and hears ones own voice,) it becomes more of an appraisal or looking for the value (God) in something, because one is familiar with God.

As to Brandon's statement in regards to the Bible being mythological and not whole, I would say this is the way to view all of the Spiritual paths. wink Why leave all others out? hmm...

Otherwise one can become imbalanced in ones ability to discern or tends to add hidden weights to the scale. The more we resist something it persists... like the beach ball in the water. Something is calling to us all to take a closer look and find the value... solutions not seeking problems. We are made in the Image or Likeness of the Universal All. We share the same qualties of God likeness... no matter how you define yourself or what label you put yourself under.

Just my thoughts here... open for appraising or inspection, one decides ...

Balancing in Love, Love is Neutral,

Julia through the Open Door ... cool
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 19:55:20 by juliainkc » Logged

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