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Author Topic: I want the truth!! Im tired of the lies or deceptions....  (Read 25878 times)
PJ
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« Reply #210 on: January 10, 2009, 20:32:15 »

Is it not true that there is no 'us'?
If so... the question "What happens to 'us' when we die?"   has no place.
Ask yourself where you begin and end.
The feeling of separateness from the All creates the illusion that there is 'Me' ... and everything outside of me.
They 'ideas' you create about you are what separate you out of the whole.
The 'I' that you feel you are is just this... an illusion.
Illusions don't die because they never existed to begin with.
They are thought-forms like smoke in the wind.
Have no fear of death for you were never born.
If you were never born... who is left to have fear?
Once there was an ocean (source being). the wind (mind) formed a storm (idea) and for a moment a drop (an 'I') hovered in the sky frightened and alone, until it fell (surrendered) back to itself.... the ocean. Although momentarily separate, the drop was always .the ocean that momentarily played with the idea that it was separate.
Find a quiet place.. sit.
allow your thoughts to make their noise.
Be invisible to that noise.
Just be the witness to the movement and noise in your mind.
Like the world around you, the mind is not you, but it just is.
The 'mind' is not you... but within your awareness.
The earth and moon are not you... but within your awareness.
All is within, and being such... there is no separation.
Truth can not be known by the mind.
How can an illusion know the Truth?


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Leila
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« Reply #211 on: January 11, 2009, 10:12:48 »

Is it not true that there is no 'us'?
If so... the question "What happens to 'us' when we die?"   has no place.
Ask yourself where you begin and end.
The feeling of separateness from the All creates the illusion that there is 'Me' ... and everything outside of me.
They 'ideas' you create about you are what separate you out of the whole.
The 'I' that you feel you are is just this... an illusion.
Illusions don't die because they never existed to begin with.
They are thought-forms like smoke in the wind.
Have no fear of death for you were never born.
If you were never born... who is left to have fear?
Once there was an ocean (source being). the wind (mind) formed a storm (idea) and for a moment a drop (an 'I') hovered in the sky frightened and alone, until it fell (surrendered) back to itself.... the ocean. Although momentarily separate, the drop was always .the ocean that momentarily played with the idea that it was separate.
Find a quiet place.. sit.
allow your thoughts to make their noise.
Be invisible to that noise.
Just be the witness to the movement and noise in your mind.
Like the world around you, the mind is not you, but it just is.
The 'mind' is not you... but within your awareness.
The earth and moon are not you... but within your awareness.
All is within, and being such... there is no separation.
Truth can not be known by the mind.
How can an illusion know the Truth?

This sounds beautiful for my heart! It touches my soul tenderly!

Who are you PJ? Trust you stay with us!

I'm Another Yourself! I love you!
Leila
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I'm the expression of Love
soulconsole
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« Reply #212 on: February 07, 2009, 17:39:30 »

Pj !!! AMaZing!!!! I LOVe YOU!!! This is what i have been realizing this week: why do i have to be concentrated within me? it's like a cage (the body) i should look out because there is  a bigger WITHIN~ all is mine and mine is ALL's!!! WE are awakening and its GREAT!!!!

Love to ALL and ALL to Love  grin
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love is peace, unconditional, eternal, without materials-which this world is. so when we love some1 we don't care about the world!!! i have realized this and will always keep it MIND ~ Cheesy
Xbalanque
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« Reply #213 on: May 26, 2009, 11:44:08 »

I just discovered this forum and the very first post I read was yours and I thought I might be able to offer a unique perspective. I read several responses to your questions, and while I agree with much of what was said, they're not really answers, are they?

Genuine answers can only come from within. Everything else will always remain theoretical for anyone with an open mind. That was my dilemma as well. I spent 30 years of my life seeking for answers and never found them because I wanted truth - not so-called "answers".

So what I write next will likely remain theoretical to you - but maybe push in the right direction.

Let me preface this with the fact that I derived the following information from my own awakening experience. Prior to this I was a dyed in the wool skeptic and agnostic. This awakening made me aware of some fundamental facts - and these facts are no longer theoretical for me. They are genuine answers.

For one, my epiphany revealed that all religions, including pagan and indigenous teachings are truth. Prior to this experience I believed that most religions were the cause of the world's suffering (and there is certainly truth to that idea).

Now, armed with this knowledge, I was compelled to study the world's religions much more thoroughly than I had in the past and I came to discover one fundamental idea that is taught in virtually all religions, namely that good and evil are the foundation of creation - otherwise known as "duality". And that we humans are the microcosmic embodiment of this idea. Just as it take a man and a woman to create a new life, so it takes the opposites, i.e. duality, to create *anything*, including Heaven and Hell.

And yet religious teachers (both east and west) also tell us that duality is an "illusion" - that there is no separation. U.G. Krishnamurti once expressed:

"Love and hate are not opposite ends of the same spectrum; they are one and the same thing."

And to answer your question, "Do animals posses a soul or a spirit?". Eastern teachers tell us that ultimately no one has a soul - that even a soul only exists within the framework of duality. I will say this however, if one can recognize good and evil, one will be judged—unless one awakens and breaks free from duality.

This idea is taught in all religions. Some call it Judgment Day, others call it Karma. Those who say that there is no Heaven nor Hell misunderstands the fundamental reality of duality. They too are trapped in the theoretical. Duality is only an illusion for those who awaken from it.

These people may believe that good and evil are illusions, but there is a BIG difference between believing it and knowing it. If you cannot walk past a child being harmed without being alarmed or desiring to stop it, you are still a prisoner of duality and because of this you will be judged. Generally speaking, most animals seem to be unaware of right and wrong, and are not therefore judged.

The Ashtavakra Gita tells us, in regards to the enlightened:

He who has known THAT is untouched within by good deeds or bad... 4.3

Righteousness and unrighteousness ... are no concern of yours. You are neither the doer nor the reaper of the consequences, so you are always free. 1.6

I did in fact experience this "non-dual" state for myself and so I know the teachers of the past speak the truth. Unfortunately there are many people out there claiming to have all the answers and many voices telling you to "listen to me". And many of these people are indeed telling you the truth (or ideas close to the truth), but if you truly want answers, you must seek for yourself and stop relying on others to tell you what the answers are.

The Sanskrit text, the Tripura Rahasya, advises:

Truly a man will ever head for destruction in his ignorance.
His salvation lies in investigation alone.

—Tripura Rahasya Chp III.2-3

...the mind engaged in practical search for truth
is the surest means of emancipation.

—Tripura Rahasya Chp VIII.5




Why is it ok for animals to kill but not humans?

Do animals posses a soul or a spirit?

Are they judged by God when they die?

Are people for that matter?

Does God even exist in a manner or way it is believe in many religions?

Do heaven and hell truely exist?

Is it true that Good and evil are only illusions or human concepts this world?

A person that truely experiences joy and bliss (as an old lady planting a gaurden) by commiting vbarious criminal acts consisting or robbery or life taken truely be considered evil? Ever hear of those marriages where either the wife or husband have killed their one another and claimed it was out of love; i.e - I killed you because I loved you...

What happens when you die if, by our conscepts, you lived a bad life of causing pain and misery towards others. In other words what will happen to all those rappist and cerial killers of this world?



The reason I ask these questions is because things like this have been floating around in my head ever since I was a child. Everyone have their own concept or belief of what happens but I want the truth. I have asked similar questions before but people just look at me funny grin. I always wondered that maybe certain people cant help the way they are? The way they was raised, brought up, influeced by their surroundings, and how they are taught right from wrong. Is it fair for their soul to be judged after all they were doing what they believed in right? If right and wrong are truely only human concepts this world then that would mean that their are no such thing as right and wrong, correct.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 12:17:35 by Xbalanque » Logged
juliainkc
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« Reply #214 on: May 26, 2009, 11:58:41 »

Hi Xbalanque ~ cool

I trust you feel the welcome mat to ONEs 'fitting' in bare feet...

We've Been Here All Along and Waiting patiently at the table ~ ...

Welcome Home ~

Drenched in Love,

A toast to Ones epiphany sure beats an epitath ...  smiley wink cool rolleyes cheesy

julia  smiley

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Xbalanque
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« Reply #215 on: May 26, 2009, 12:50:09 »

Thank you for the welcome Julia.  smiley




Hi Xbalanque ~ cool

I trust you feel the welcome mat to ONEs 'fitting' in bare feet...

We've Been Here All Along and Waiting patiently at the table ~ ...

Welcome Home ~

Drenched in Love,

A toast to Ones epiphany sure beats an epitath ...  smiley wink cool rolleyes cheesy

julia  smiley


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Mina-Laura
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« Reply #216 on: May 26, 2009, 23:17:30 »

Hello Xbalanque 


Interesting post. Smiley Reading it a few things come to mind.


Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
Say not, "I have found the path of the soul." Say rather, "I have met the soul walking upon my path."
For the soul walks upon all paths.
The soul walks not upon a line, neither does it grow like a reed.
The soul unfolds itself, like a lotus of countless petals.


 (from Kahlil Gibran of Self-Knowledge: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5484/Gib17.htm)


This article come to mind about interesting new facts on animals that apparently have a code of behaviour/ morals...

There is evidence of altruism, with some animals acting disinterestedly for the good of others. Animals which live in communities, the scientists say, often exhibit signs of morality which resembles human behaviour.
They say there is scientific backing for their claims, with huge implications for human use of animals.
....
"Animal sentience has been a matter of debate down the centuries.
"We can't prove absolutely even that another human being is sentient, though it would obviously be unreasonable to assume they are not.
"But the weight of scientific opinion is that it's certainly right to give the benefit of the doubt to all vertebrates."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3014747.stm


Also I think we would be very interested to read about your experience on non-duality . Smiley


love
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May the light of love be always with you ~ Laura
Xbalanque
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« Reply #217 on: May 27, 2009, 12:11:25 »

Thank you Laura. The quote from Kahlil Gibran is quite good and is a reminder to me to be careful in how I phrase things.

To really describe the experience is not easy without writing reams, but I'll do my best to keep it short.

The non-dual state I was in was likely not complete, but it was powerful enough for me to recognize the state and to better understand the nature of duality. After the experience I read many, many books and religious texts. My mind was now open to ideas that I had formerly rejected. One book was by Jack Kornfield entitled "After the Ecstasy, the Laundry". In the book he interviewed many people who had enlightenment experiences and the experiences of all of those he interviewed in the book was very similar to my own (though with some very important differences as well).

One constant for all in the book as well as myself was that the experience only lasts about 3-5 months. Afterwards one returns to normal. Kornfield argues that no one, not even the Buddha, remains in the state forever - that it is always a temporary state (not so sure I agree with his argument even though it was true for me).

Now I had studied Buddhism for over 20 years (while never becoming a "Buddhist") and of course have heard the teachings of nonduality, but I never truly understood it until the epiphany.

I can only describe the state as being completely at peace, with no desire whatsoever. There was no desire to accomplish this or that, no desire for food or wine, etc, no desire for anything whatsoever.

Also the state felt completely natural - not foreign at all. The really interesting thing for me is that it took no effort to remain in this state. It went far beyond what I was capable of doing on my own. So many religious texts seem to exhort the individual to try harder, to use their will power. But when this state is achieved, there is no effort.

In regards to the state of enlightenment, the Ashtavakra Gita states:

"Liberation is when the mind does not long for anything, grieve about anything, reject anything, or hold on to anything, and is not pleased about anything nor displeased about anything." 8.2

U.G. Krishnamurti said:

"God or enlightenment is the ultimate pleasure, uninterrupted happiness. No such thing exists. Your wanting something that does not exist is the root of your problems. Transformation, moksha, liberation, and all that stuff, are just variations of the same theme: permanent happiness... The peacefully functioning body doesn't care one hoot for your ecstasies, beatitudes, or blissful states."

The state I experienced validates for me these teachings and is in my opinion exactly what Jesus, the Buddha, et al. were trying to describe. The state of enlightenment isn't about permanent bliss or happiness. Those states are products of duality. If one experiences happiness, they will in turn also experience sadness. This is also the teaching behind yin and yang.

The nondual state is neither joyful nor painful. In the Gospel of Thomas, one of the earliest Christian texts (estimated to have been written between AD 200 to AD 250), Jesus says the following:

"When You make the two one, and when You make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when You make the male and the female one, so that the male will not be male nor the female female ... then will You enter the Kingdom."

—Gospel of Thomas (22)

Clearly Jesus is saying that the Kingdom of God rests in nonduality - neither male nor female. This is why Adam and Eve fell from God's grace when they learned of "good and evil" - the knowledge of "good and evil" is just another way of expressing the knowledge of the opposites. When we recognize the opposites, we are in the world of pleasure and pain, happiness and sadness, creation and destruction and is why we suffer.

The nondual state has been described in the Hindu Puranas as the primordial state - the state that exists before creation. Creation requires polarity - the "opposites". But duality is always changing and impermanent, thus causing gain and loss, joy and sadness, pleasure and pain.

Bhagavadgita states:

"...the true Renouncer, firm and fixed,
Who—seeking nought, rejecting nought—dwells proof
Against the "opposites"."

And the Ashtavakra Gita teaches:

Truly dualism is the root of suffering. There is no other remedy for it than the realisation that all this that we see is unreal, and that I am the one stainless reality, consisting of consciousness. 2.16






Hello Xbalanque 


Interesting post. Smiley Reading it a few things come to mind.


Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
Say not, "I have found the path of the soul." Say rather, "I have met the soul walking upon my path."
For the soul walks upon all paths.
The soul walks not upon a line, neither does it grow like a reed.
The soul unfolds itself, like a lotus of countless petals.


 (from Kahlil Gibran of Self-Knowledge: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5484/Gib17.htm)


This article come to mind about interesting new facts on animals that apparently have a code of behaviour/ morals...

There is evidence of altruism, with some animals acting disinterestedly for the good of others. Animals which live in communities, the scientists say, often exhibit signs of morality which resembles human behaviour.
They say there is scientific backing for their claims, with huge implications for human use of animals.
....
"Animal sentience has been a matter of debate down the centuries.
"We can't prove absolutely even that another human being is sentient, though it would obviously be unreasonable to assume they are not.
"But the weight of scientific opinion is that it's certainly right to give the benefit of the doubt to all vertebrates."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3014747.stm


Also I think we would be very interested to read about your experience on non-duality . Smiley


love
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 22:50:10 by Xbalanque » Logged
juliainkc
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« Reply #218 on: May 28, 2009, 13:09:17 »

Pardon me Xbalanque for not responding sooner ~ smiley

You are most warmly welcomed and I for One InJoy One's Unique expressions ...

Share your Light,

In Love's Spirit,

Julia cool
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Xbalanque
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« Reply #219 on: May 28, 2009, 15:56:16 »

Thank you Julia. I really appreciate it. The thoughts shared in this forum are quite refreshing and interesting for me. People here seem to share a genuine thirst for knowledge.


Pardon me Xbalanque for not responding sooner ~ smiley

You are most warmly welcomed and I for One InJoy One's Unique expressions ...

Share your Light,

In Love's Spirit,

Julia cool
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Prince hisoka
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« Reply #220 on: August 12, 2009, 16:50:08 »

 Take it easy my friend, having and thinking of all them questions (intellectualy) won't really get you anywhere, in fact it'll even raise more questions. What i started already months ago was my cultivation towards the truth and gaining happiness, this is mainly done by mindfullnes. Research more on these topics: Karma, meditation, midfullness etc. I suggest buddhism will help the most out of them philosophies.
Good Luck
Ahmed
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Kadensnga
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« Reply #221 on: August 13, 2009, 04:45:58 »

Mina Laura,

I love you for quoting the prophet. Thank you, it is always refreshing.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 04:51:46 by Kadensnga » Logged

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fossall
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« Reply #222 on: September 15, 2009, 11:26:07 »

Ultimate reality, perfection. Bah, just words. To call anything ultimate puts fence around it. Limiting it. Consciousness is ever evolving, that which we call god is perfect. That includes you, whoever is reading this. All the so called physical is about experiencing and recreating one self in the most noble way possible. At every instant. To what ever degree we capable.
Love Paul
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XSI-64
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« Reply #223 on: September 29, 2009, 11:58:09 »

Why is it ok for animals to kill but not humans?

Do animals posses a soul or a spirit?

Are they judged by God when they die?

Are people for that matter?

Does God even exist in a manner or way it is believe in many religions?

Do heaven and hell truely exist?

Is it true that Good and evil are only illusions or human concepts this world?

A person that truely experiences joy and bliss (as an old lady planting a gaurden) by commiting vbarious criminal acts consisting or robbery or life taken truely be considered evil? Ever hear of those marriages where either the wife or husband have killed their one another and claimed it was out of love; i.e - I killed you because I loved you...

What happens when you die if, by our conscepts, you lived a bad life of causing pain and misery towards others. In other words what will happen to all those rappist and cerial killers of this world?



The reason I ask these questions is because things like this have been floating around in my head ever since I was a child. Everyone have their own concept or belief of what happens but I want the truth. I have asked similar questions before but people just look at me funny grin. I always wondered that maybe certain people cant help the way they are? The way they was raised, brought up, influeced by their surroundings, and how they are taught right from wrong. Is it fair for their soul to be judged after all they were doing what they believed in right? If right and wrong are truely only human concepts this world then that would mean that their are no such thing as right and wrong, correct.
In the first question I can tell you yes animals do have a spirit
As for the second question, No
But I will pass the remaining questions except question 6 & 8
As for question 6 from what I learned everything in the universe depends on event in which they exist
For example
Let's suppose there's a ship and ther are pirates who will take this ship only if it is not damaged.Now What if we are on the ship and we know about the pirates but nobody else know and we make a crack in the ship so that they won't take the ship and kill the others ,anyone seeing this will tell you this is bad but in this event it is a good thing which means the case of good and evil depends on the event and on our knowledge about the event and  not making the crack in the light of our knowledge is considered evil thues good can turn to evil and vice versa but as we don't take the responsibilities of our actions we need to stick to "good and evil" principles.
As for the question 8 I read a book about people subjected to hypnosis by a hypnotist(the writer of the book)in which he explores with them their past lives and he found out that we have guides whom we meet after death and discuus with us what we've done in our lives and the targets needed from the spirit.
And I advise you to concentrate on these questions and believe that the answers will come to you whether by intuition or in a book or even a word from someone.
Finally I conguratulate you on asking these questions for most people don't have the courage to ask these questions
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juliainkc
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« Reply #224 on: September 29, 2009, 12:27:50 »

Hi XSI-64, smiley

A warm welcome to the forums. Thank you for your 'input' by Being Present.

Good, evil, mmm ...

Aren't we the totality of possibilities? So, if we see 'evil' in us as in ourself, then which way are we seeing this?

Evil as in no good? or Evil as in embedded into our Good or GOD? mmm ...

There's meat in this Vegan salad and somehow it all relates to some really hot sex.

Yes, I really just said this ~

There's Roses and Hot Peppers in this salad,

La La ~

Who Else?!?!

Seeing with Loving Eyes,

Julia cool

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~ I am here to make Love visible in this world ~
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