I am the vine…

[melody]

Julia,

If you are one with the Father, then you don't have to ask and to be given. God does not ask. He simply states, or decrease, and it is so. This has nothing to do with arrogance but with Faith. When you have total Faith that you have something, you do not ask, you proclaim (= state = decree) it to be so. So this is a question: what is one having Faith in - in one's ability to have it just by imagining and stating and believeing = having Faith in having it, or does one has Faith that by asking the Universal force - the Father, God, one will receive it?

In addition, I find it very curious that Jesus states over and over again - "ask in my name"

Joh 14:13  And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
 
Joh 14:14  If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Joh 15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Joh 16:23  And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Joh 16:24  Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
 
Joh 16:26  At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

[juliainkc]

Actually the Father does ask.

This was revealed in the parable of the Two Sons. The Father Asked First.

What is the True Name of 'Jesus'?

The Child of God.

What child asks of its Parent and is denied?

Do you respond as an Heir, a child or someone who sees the Parent as one to use? Gimme, gimme, or thank you, thank you!!

Going beyond earthly reasoning to the Source, did you create the True Creator Melody? Just asking.

What day are we speaking of here Melody? The Bible states over and over again. The 'Time' is at hand. That was over 2,000 years ago.

What are you saying here? Really. What does all these questions you have about our position with the Source of All Living come to mean to you. That is what the real question is here my sister.


Louis ~ Why puzzle the puzzle? Just play with it and know that it is a 'toy'.


Love to you both in Divine Spirit,

Julia

[wavepsychic]

This topic is getting very interesting. I think Melody just wants to know what is the best why to get what we want and fast. Every year Adrian and many others promise the new and the best to attract everything you want. "If you have not attracted into your reality everything you want then buy this book or this mind power studios and so on". I bought them all and I still don't have basic things I want. I try to be positive honesty but I have to be realistic too!

[melody]

Hello Julia,

I find it very difficult to reason with your train of thought, especially since you tend to get very quickly very personal. This is not what my questioning is about. My post was partially in response to the question of Faith.

Father - God can ask us - human beings - questions (in other words put us in very difficult situations which we have to account for and answer), but he did not ask any questions when he created Universe. He simply utterred a Word - he decreed, and it was so.

So are we true and equal expression of God equal to him in all the aspects, or are we simply his children who have to ask Father to create? If we are simply his children, then the Faith we have is Faith in the Father.

But if we are the true and equal expression of God, then we do not have to ask.

However, the Bible claims that we have to ask, and even should ask in the name of Jesus Christ. So this indicates that it is Faith in God that we have to have, and this also indicates a certain hierarchy, regardless of the fact that God is in us. We are in the father, but he does not ask us when he creates tornadoes or planets, galaxies and other cosmic phenomena.

[juliainkc]

Hi Wave,  

I agree it is becoming interesting.

This topic is getting very interesting. I think Melody just wants to know what is the best why to get what we want and fast. Every year Adrian and many others promise the new and the best to attract everything you want. "If you have not attracted into your reality everything you want then buy this book or this mind power studios and so on". I bought them all and I still don't have basic things I want. I try to be positive honesty but I have to be realistic too!

I understand that people want security in having their needs met. Know Source and all these things will be added unto you.

Perhaps it isn't the huge mansion, 10 cars, trips all over the place, millions and billions in the bank that you want. Perhaps it is just to be secure and taken care of and knowing this is so on a moment to moment basis. How does one define what security really means to them? By getting in there and finding out what this does mean to you exactly. The True underlying effect desired which is what our thoughts are creating.

Do we want prosperity so we do not experience poverty? That is not a 'positive' thought my friend. There is an underlying thought here that negates prosperity. Prosperity and poverty are polar opposites. Are we having the same thoughts at the same time? And we wonder why we are not getting what we say we really want? We are indeed.


Perhaps it is just InJoying your life and living in Peace that brings abundance, not having a bunch of stuff to take care of and worry about. Who can say for another? Simplicity is Abundance you know.

I am sharing from what I observe based from having my own life experiences which allows me to observe this in others life experiences is that we either come to God saying, give me this and then I'll believe which is always shifting ground and seeking elsewhere or we know our God and do not doubt that what we have is what we have asked for and receive it either with gratitude or grumbling.

A not good enough mentality whether it is us, our partner, our house, our food, our God, etc... and we cannot figure out why we feel so unworthy?

Same with knowing your relationship with Source. You either are an expression of Source (equal in Nature) or you believe you are not (lesser).

So I asked Melody to find out for herself what exactly does she believe about her relationship with Source? That's all that really matters for each one of 'us'. It determines how we live with ourself and other aspects of ourself. Truth.

We are encouraged to ask, however, the idea in the scriptures Melody quotes also follows to receive the answer not keep asking the same question. This denotes not listening.


Mmm..

Just planting seeds here to consider... which vine are we growing from? The True Vine or a Falsely Allluding One that leads to no fruit being produced?

Love in Divine Spirit,

Julia

[juliainkc]

Hi Melody,

Just saw your response here after posting. We are back to your making my statements to you personal. Okay. Let's make this personal.

Your relationship with Source is very personal Melody. It isn't about intellectually studying about God over and over again.

As to faith being your question. There is a thread already begun in the OUR forum by Adrian.

Faith is personal. How can you trust a God you know only by what you've studied and not by being one of the Family with.

We ask by direct association or as a stranger. Truth.

I cannot do anything about how you see me Melody.

Hello Julia,

I find it very difficult to reason with your train of thought, especially since you tend to get very quickly very personal. This is not what my questioning is about. My post was partially in response to the question of Faith.

Father - God can ask us - human beings - questions (in other words put us in very difficult situations which we have to account for and answer), but he did not ask any questions when he created Universe. He simply utterred a Word - he decreed, and it was so.

So are we true and equal expression of God equal to him in all the aspects, or are we simply his children who have to ask Father to create? If we are simply his children, then the Faith we have is Faith in the Father.

But if we are the true and equal expression of God, then we do not have to ask.

However, the Bible claims that we have to ask, and even should ask in the name of Jesus Christ. So this indicates that it is Faith in God that we have to have, and this also indicates a certain hierarchy, regardless of the fact that God is in us. We are in the father, but he does not ask us when he creates tornadoes or planets, galaxies and other cosmic phenomena.

You tend to make it so impersonal this relationship with God. And perhaps this is the 'thing' that makes it difficult for you to follow my train of thinking. I cannot answer for you on this.

Okay, you say if we are the true and equal expressions of God, then we do not have to ask.

That is the difference here Melody, I do know I Am a True and Equal expression of God.

Do you speak to your family in this illusion? Words are used only in this illusion.

In Truth, as I have shared and I agree with you, words are symbols twice removed. So no we do not really 'need' to ask as our asking is given before we ask.

Our doubts that we are being answered is what keeps us from our answer.

I am open to hearing you Melody which is why I respond. I cannot do anything for you about how you receive from me.

That is between you and your God in relationship as it for me.

Love in Divine Spirit,

Julia

[wavepsychic]

Dear Melody,

Perhaps you are right, perhaps you have to ask. But I thought I was asking. I asked the source of all things and thought positive and done everything. And nothing! How do you ask? I don't know how! Am I doing it wrong?

mere words alone will not change DNA, bring forth abundance, ext. Did I ask correctly and god just decided that He doesn't think I deserve it? How dare he decide my fate. I am at the complete mercy of someone else that doesn't care about what I want? and what I need to be happy?

Christians are not all powerful chosen children of god. They are not the multi billionaires. The most powerful men and women in the world are free masons not the chosen children of god "Christians".

I just don't know what I am doing wrong, I don't know how to do anything I guess, even after all this time of positive this and positive that. All the books I had read. All the advice I took to heart. I have NOTHING.

[Mina-Laura]

Dear Luois

It looks to me that you suffer through want of light.

"When trouble of any kind comes into one's life it is because he has allowed his consciousness to fall to the level where fear and limitation can reach him." (Emmet Fox - Power through constructive thinking)

Free masons are raised and through all their lives all they know is the power of their consciousness. Sharp concentrated focus.
For us it comes in smaller portions this understanding as we come to terms with a lot of baggage. As I cannot speak for others and only for myself I can tell you beyond any doubt that "all that I have asked it was given to me".
I spent about one year backtracking my life in reflections, remembering even the most inner secret thoughts that I repressed and I can tell you for sure. All those thoughts born in ignorance and winged on passionate flow come true! With a shocking accuracy.

LOA or whatever you want to call it works!! The problem is our mind that is lazy and unfocused and easily given to desperation and giving up.

Another problem is us not following through with action. There is an old  Romanian say that goes something like: "You can wait till autumn lying on your back under the tree….who knows perhaps the rotten fruit shall fall into your mouth." - and is addressed to those that think that all they need to do is "believe" and nothing else. I.e. to built a ladder and climb to pick the fruit if they desire, which in essence means work. 
The things is that God is doing his part but you have to do yours.

You want superpowers? well find a 'sensible' way to get them, go into training, find the training, find means to do it..and so on.

All the books I had read. All the advice I took to heart. I have NOTHING.[/color]

Are you sure? beyond any doubt ?

What else can I say? Life is not easy (for most) and giving up on themselves will make it even harder.

remember always!!
THOUGHTS ARE THINGS

be careful of the thoughts and words you carry in your heart...

love - Laura

[Mina-Laura]

Hmm I just remembered one more thing: "Ask and ye shall be given."

This is a very interesting wording "Ask and ye shall be given". Given by whom? By an external force? By God?

If we are creators than the phrase should have been "Decree and it will be so!" or "Proclaim and it shall be created - it shall be brought to life."

Yet Jesus tells us to "ask" and he assures us that we will "be give". The position Jesus designates us to is hardly that of God or of a universal creator.

Dear Melody

Let's make it as simple as possible. There are 2 worlds.

1: the world of the unseen, energy, of God, the stuff that everything is made of... and I won't further go into any more descriptions because is useless describing something that eludes scientists, and mystics can only give us faint ideas of what/how it may be

This is the world of CAUSE that causes everything that is in the world that we know:

2: physical reality (Adrian's favourite Oxymoron..lol..)

We, humans are physical incarnations and like about everyting that we know or perceive 'we grow' out of the world of CAUSE

Like a tree out of a seed... the seed has the potential to grow a tree... the tree is not the seed, as it grown out of that tree, same as that seed come from another tree and so on.. . and BOTH seed and tree would not exist if not for that 'potential' ... that 'nothing' because you cannot hold it in your hand...however is there!

Is like out of practically 'nothing' the seed knows how to take a bit of this, a bit of that (water, sun, nutrients etc.) and bit by bit, building block by building block add a cell, and another, specialise it in a limb, and so on...

Without thinking it knows how to grow effortlessly. Same as us. WE all grow effortlessly out of 'nothing' when you really think about it. More and more complex hierarchy of organization. Perfectly and harmonically balanced to keep us, the plant and etc.. the universe together.

Now ..when we speak about ASK it simply means that with mind we find a way to connect with the no. 1 (the CAUSE)

Father/son - simply refers to relationship type (as humans relate better emotionally when presented with concepts).

Our relationship with CAUSE is envisioned same as a very loving father and his children. Is just a frame of reference that people would understand. A genius quantum physicist would perhaps use different words and etc to represent our relationship with the no 1: the CAUSE.  I am not even call it energy, some call it 'the field', truth is will never know in this physical.

And 'ask' again is a representation of the thought form that a human envisions 'when he/she asks' the CAUSE to bring or 'reorganise' the reality to align with his/hers deep seated heart desires.


See: http://www.ourultimatereality.com/forums/prayer-understanding-how-and-why-we-pray-to-all-denominations-t942.0.html
The energy field or the Mind of God has an intelligence that responds to human emotion and exists everywhere and is always present. We are just beginning to understand on how we participate in the events in our lives and on how through this field we are all part of and in the events of our world. On how we are Co-Creators with God.


"pray/ask good thoughts Melody and ye shall be given"

love - Laura

[Mina-Laura]

Oh wow!!!

Only just NOW I read Adrian's yesterday newsletter.

wow another myself thought form...

love - Laura

[juliainkc]

Dear Melody,

Perhaps you are right, perhaps you have to ask. But I thought I was asking. I asked the source of all things and thought positive and done everything. And nothing! How do you ask? I don't know how! Am I doing it wrong?

mere words alone will not change DNA, bring forth abundance, ext. Did I ask correctly and god just decided that He doesn't think I deserve it? How dare he decide my fate. I am at the complete mercy of someone else that doesn't care about what I want? and what I need to be happy?

Christians are not all powerful chosen children of god. They are not the multi billionaires. The most powerful men and women in the world are free masons not the chosen children of god "Christians".

I just don't know what I am doing wrong, I don't know how to do anything I guess, even after all this time of positive this and positive that. All the books I had read. All the advice I took to heart. I have NOTHING.

Dear Louis,

I have to agree with you in your statement I highlighted above. Mere words will not change anything. I am saying this in the understanding that you are not alone in having this experience. This is the kind of experience that brings us to letting go of the how to's and Become by just Being.

Mere words are lip service. I am not getting on you here. Truth. Again, we've all been through this, are going through this and will go through this until the words are backed by deep inner utterings. Emoting from within. This is not about something we are just 'drumming' up.

Our Higher Self knows this and we truly cannot fool our God Self. Our Higher Self will do whatever it takes to lead us into our True Nature.

Your frustration is leading you through the process and Patience is what you are learning. With yourself first. Truth. I noticed here that there is an underlying sense of Tao, Source, God as Being separate from you in that you seem to think that there is a 'correct' way to ask or you are not being considered as deserving, that somehow this God is deciding your fate and you feel like you are at the mercy of some Being who does not care about you.

This is actually revealing and beneficial Louis.

I will say that there are those here who have been on this journey for many years and it is a process just like the one you are experiencing here. Does this mean you will have to wait many years to receive what your heart desires? It is totally up to you to decide. All the sharing here is for the benefit of all.

I will say this about faith. You have faith Louis. It's just that you have more faith in what isn't working right now. Put this heart feeling into desiring your relationship with Source first and you will be given the Divine dreams of your heart as they will  be Creatively Inspired by your Divine Higher Self.

If I could define it into One Step, it would be this; develop your relationship with Source first by getting to know yourself and accepting all parts of yourself just the way you are now first, which is a process requiring patience based on growing in Unconditional Love through Spiritual Understanding. Allow the Divine Source to work through you on a moment by moment basis.

We try to skip this very number One step to get to the other stuff first.

Just Ask to see Source revealed in you and in your life today, Ask, I want to know Tao, I want to know Source, I want to know God with all your heart. You seem to be reaching this point in my honest observation. Your passion grows from within and will transform from frustration to freedom.

Positive thoughts will not do a whole lot of anything if there is a mountain of untrusting debris underlying them.

I see you at a 'breaking' point and in all honesty, I have yet to see it otherwise in any other who has followed the Higher Path.

This is what leads us to share that faith like joy is an inside job.

I do understand how frustrating it feels and the feeling of being left behind the door while 'others' seem to be getting their share and portion. This is just an error in thinking. Your Inheritance is yours and yours only to claim. It has your True Name on it.

It is interesting that whenever we ask for something it 'seems' the opposite appears. This is just showing us where our walls are. Truly. So we can transform our walls into no walls. Like when we ask for more patience, it seems that we meet the most 'trying' people why? Because our Source likes to play games and make us miserable? Or because this will grow us in our patience.

There is a saying that 'It is always darkest before the dawn'. In nature this is so. Rise up before the sun rises and you will see this to be so.

Keep the faith brother. Your faith is growing and being transformed. I see this happening in you truly.

Ask to see one thing, one sign that your Higher Self is communicating with you today and leave it alone (believing in faith you are heard and answered, expectation of your good) and go about your day. At the end of the day, reflect on your day. It may be the simplest smallest thing but you will recognize it. Even if it was the beauty of the sunrise or sunset. You will see IT.

That's when you realize that you Louis created the beauty of that moment and shared it with your Source.

We can choose to learn from pain yes, and we can also choose to learn from Joy. It's always a choice.

I am keeping you in my thoughts Louis.

I just wanted to encourage you Louis. Be empowered and encouraged in Spirit. Truly.

I love you in the Divine Spirit of Unconditional Love,

Julia

P.S. A bedtime story ... for you ...

http://www.ourultimatereality.com/forums/science-of-being-t647.0.html;msg4383#msg4383

[wavepsychic]

Hi Laura and Julia

LOA or whatever you want to call it works!! The problem is our mind that is lazy and unfocused and easily given to desperation and giving up.

Another problem is us not following through with action. There is an old  Romanian say that goes something like: "You can wait till autumn lying on your back under the tree….who knows perhaps the rotten fruit shall fall into your mouth." - and is addressed to those that think that all they need to do is "believe" and nothing else. I.e. to built a ladder and climb to pick the fruit if they desire, which in essence means work.
The things is that God is doing his part but you have to do yours.

You want superpowers? well find a 'sensible' way to get them, go into training, find the training, find means to do it..and so on.

Thanks to bakiyoda I have found baby steps to telekinesis. I need some success before I can do bigger things. So I think I am on the right track now.

As far as having to WORK to MEET the Source half way. Nobody needs to WORK. That is negative thinking that results in having to do things you don't want to do. All negative thinking leads to this. Communicate effectively to influence others yes. Work no. Work is usually stressful and that only makes things worse. It is the source that builds my cells, I can't do anything about it. When it comes down to it what I want right now is for one hormone level to decrease and another hormone to increase. This is easily done by stopping the production of one enzyme. I tried to do it with the law of attraction, with my imagination. I even had faith in the source and after so long it didn't work. This hormone is the difference between someone with a full head of hair and someone otherwise. Just one enzyme. However nothing seems to be working so I hope as I gain telekinesis success my faith in all my powers will increase.

Julia -- I was saying those things you highlighted sarcastically. I don't actually believe that. I still do not know how to tell the First Cause what I want but I am on a quest to find my inner powers. I will learn exactly how to reprogram the cells so they do what I want them to do. I am inspired and I never gave up.

Within Love, Louis

[Mina-Laura]

As far as having to WORK to MEET the Source half way. Nobody needs to WORK. That is negative thinking that results in having to do things you don't want to do. All negative thinking leads to this. Communicate effectively to influence others yes. Work no. Work is usually stressful and that only makes things worse. It is the source that builds my cells, I can't do anything about it. When it comes down to it what I want right now is for one hormone level to decrease and another hormone to increase. This is easily done by stopping the production of one enzyme. I tried to do it with the law of attraction, with my imagination. I even had faith in the source and after so long it didn't work. This hormone is the difference between someone with a full head of hair and someone otherwise. Just one enzyme. However nothing seems to be working so I hope as I gain telekinesis success my faith in all my powers will increase.

Dear Louis,

I don't think I ever said that you need to do the work that makes you unhappy and drained. As a matter of fact is is a known fact that the truly happy people are the ones that do what they love (as work) and doing so they don't even consider it as work.

When I talk about work it means doing something. Even when you are just sitting and meditating although it seems you are not doing something, it is when you think about it.

Perhaps you mix up work with chore/labour...EFFORT?!?.. anyway something with negative association in your mind? that makes you deeply unhappy and dissatisfied? Because even the baby steps you talk about in telekinesis are work and self-consciously keeping yourself on task, which is ultimately work that you do with yourself.

Anyway here is a quote from my I-Ching card of the day, I have a feeling it may speak to you.

35: Easy Progress
Be reminded that progress is achieved most effortlessly when right action is taken without concern for immediate reward, and when the path of the weaker aligns with that which is strong.

The path of the weaker aligns with that which is strong...

anyway hope this will help fixing some missconceptions...

Your frustration is leading you through the process and Patience is what you are learning. With yourself first. Truth. I noticed here that there is an underlying sense of Tao, Source, God as Being separate from you in that you seem to think that there is a 'correct' way to ask or you are not being considered as deserving, that somehow this God is deciding your fate and you feel like you are at the mercy of some Being who does not care about you.
This is actually revealing and beneficial Louis.

...

I will say that there are those here who have been on this journey for many years and it is a process just like the one you are experiencing here. Does this mean you will have to wait many years to receive what your heart desires? It is totally up to you to decide. All the sharing here is for the benefit of all.

I will say this about faith. You have faith Louis. It's just that you have more faith in what isn't working right now. Put this heart feeling into desiring your relationship with Source first and you will be given the Divine dreams of your heart as they will  be Creatively Inspired by your Divine Higher Self.

If I could define it into One Step, it would be this; develop your relationship with Source first by getting to know yourself and accepting all parts of yourself just the way you are now first, which is a process requiring patience based on growing in Unconditional Love through Spiritual Understanding. Allow the Divine Source to work through you on a moment by moment basis.
We try to skip this very number One step to get to the other stuff first.

Just Ask to see Source revealed in you and in your life today, Ask, I want to know Tao, I want to know Source, I want to know God with all your heart. You seem to be reaching this point in my honest observation. Your passion grows from within and will transform from frustration to freedom.

What else can I say?

love - Laura

[melody]

Hello all,

Julia,

My relationship with God is quite personal. What I object to is you feeling the right to dig into it and question it and speak down to me as if you knew it all and I was quite ignorant and not entitled to ask my types of questions, and just did not have it all together the way you apparently do. I find some of the posts in this forum towards other members quite didactic and spoken down to though often in a "nice" type of way. Yet frankly, I believe that any private expression should be honored and not dug into, and that no one should be lectured down to.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches...

Laura, you brought up in another thread the idea that we are a glass of water and the source is the ocean. A nice analogy, probably quite revealing, but not complete.

The ocean can create a great storm and all the glasses of water would participate in it and express it. Yet if a separate glass of water decided it wanted all on its own to create a storm, absolutely nothing would happen. It can ask, and declare, and imagine with no result because the force of the ocean has its own energy motion that comprices all those individual glasses of water but acts quite independently of them, sweeping them into its own sphere of influence within the greater reality it occupies.

I imagine only if a glass of water had projected a very wise request why the storm it requests is needed to materialise at that particular moment something would have happened, but only because the ocean knew already that that storm was needed to bring the equilibrium to the energies it was controlling.

Yet, there are energies which are even stronger than the ocean and all the glasses of water it is composed of. The entire Earth's bulk of oceans is governed by forces it cannot control but can only express - the pull of the Moon that creates the tides. And there is nothing the glasses of water or the whole ocean can do about it, but simply express this energy. They cannot imagine something else and change it and stop producing the tides.

Maybe this is the way we are meant to express God. And that only when we ask in the sympathy of the overall grand picture of universal forces, and our request is in tune with those forces and we even ask in their name, that we will be given the honour to express God.

[juliainkc]

Hello all,

Julia,

My relationship with God is quite personal. What I object to is you feeling the right to dig into it and question it and speak down to me as if you knew it all and I was quite ignorant and not entitled to ask my types of questions, and just did not have it all together the way you apparently do.[/b][/i] I find some of the posts in this forum towards other members quite didactic and spoken down to though often in a "nice" type of way. Yet frankly, I believe that any private expression should be honored and not dug into, and that no one should be lectured down to.

Hi Melody,

This being a public forum all expressions are quite open for observation and for allowing all to share openly their own unique expressions.

Each one in this forum is intitled to their own perceptions. I would not leave you, myself or anyone out for that matter.

Didactic? I have shared openly that I write as I am led. My day is begun with giving it over to Being led by the Holy Spirit.

So if it shows up to you or any other as being informational in an entertaining or educational way, well... so be it. We are all teachers and students of ourselves.

As to talking down to you or another, that is your perception. I'll leave that thought with you as you have shared it from yourself.

I have agreed with you Melody, it is indeed personal one's relationship with God. Asking questions are a part of the purpose of this forum and responding to any post is as well.

How you perceive my responses is totally based on your own Inner thoughts. I am asked to own mine and I openly admit responsibility to owning my thoughts.

I sleep very well at night, even if once in a while I am awakened at different hours.

You are totally welcomed by me to share in any which way you choose. I allow myself to do the same.

Private expressions are well, not in an open forum such as this.

Personally Melody, while I do not always agree with the manner that you address others, I do not remove the fact that you like I am a Child of God.

Whatever gives you Unity (Peace).

InJoy Being Melody, as I InJoy Being Me.

Share on as I will continue to do so,

Love to you in the Divine Spirit of Unconditional Love,

Julia