Demonic Possessions

[TheBaron]

I see this is an older thread, so hopefully people are still interested in the subject.  I'm not by any means claiming to have the correct answers for anything spiritual.  I feel that there are many things that one may never fully comprehend and many routes to reaching what people do.  This thread was started about demonic possession and I would like to address that issue.  I have participated in local paranormal groups as an Occult Specialist and have done some 'experimenting' on my own.  So my theories are justified by my own personal authority and therefore are subjective and open for controversy.  However, from my personal experience, I would say that often times things that appear to be evil to most are evil because they are not understood.  We, humankind as a whole, tend to fear what we do not understand.  For that reason it is common for people to believe that a ghost or spirit is evil because it exists, and I have found no proof of this thus far.  I have encountered entities that I would classify as having ill intent and I have also experienced, very rarely mind you, something that I could classify as nothing other than a demonic entity.  I question my definition as Demon because I am not Christian, and even though 'Demons' are not exclusive to Canon, it is greatly defined and referenced as so.  So I will clarify, I have seen and/or experienced entities that have a frightening appearance, however they were not frightening because they appeared or the appearance they chose to take.  It was the 'feeling' that they give the individual when experienced.  The one that rings most clearly in my mind 'filled the air' around me with a very haunting feeling.  It was as if the fear could be tasted, as the saying goes.  I do not fear entities or ghosts due to my constant interaction with them, however this one in particular wanted to be feared and I felt that nothing good could come from it.  So I would say that a demonic type being does indeed exist.  I have also experienced what I believe to be true possession but it was not always by an entity I would deem demonic.  So I don't think the two are exclusive.  If you're interested in the specifics of Demonic Possession I would recommend reading the book American Exorcism by Michael W. Cuneo, and for that matter I think it is an important book to read if anyone wants to be or is an Occult Specialist, Demonologist, Cleanser, or of the sort.  Whether you in the end believe in demonic activity I think it's important to always approach the matter with a skeptical mind set, like anything in life.  Don't blind yourself with doubt, but remember that there are many things that can influence a situation to appear a particular way, including personal agenda or belief structure.  I love that this board is open to all kinds of subjects and if there are any questions I can answer I would also greatly enjoy doing so.  Thank you for your time and I hope you've enjoyed my input.

Much love,
Brandon

[juliainkc]

Hi Baron ~

You are welcomed to share yourSelf with All Present and Here.

This expresses my Heart of the Matter in my own dictionary of terms;


http://www.ourultimatereality.com/forums/myths-and-mysteries/demonic-possessions-t735.0.html;msg6284


Everyone's view expands and enlarges my view.


Some call it Pandora's Box.


I call it Panorama. ~

Love to All,

I'M still standing in my place,

Julia

[TheBaron]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the way you worded your reply and I don't know what you were trying to communicate, but after looking at your first post and rereading my own I realized there were questions that I had not addressed.  So with your indulgence I will elaborate more.  What is the purpose of a demon?  Well, the common belief is that they serve no purpose but their own, which is evil in design.  Many different religions around the world believe in demonic activity however they don't necessarily explain where they come from and the term Demon is not defined the same in every culture.  Some demons are not evil at all in certain cultures, in others they're protectors of a place or area and in many they are indeed evil.  Demonologists claim that demons manifest visually in all sorts of horrific ways and the Oriental cultures believed in the hideousness of demons as well.  From my research, which I explain in a chapter in my book, the only Judeo-Christian explanation for the creation or design of demons comes from the Book of Enoch, which is a canonical test withheld from the Bible and is about Noah's great grandfather Enoch.  There is a story about angels who were close to man and it was their job to interact and protect humankind.  Well these angels apparently became too human and began to have very human emotions, such as lust.  These angels then had sex with human women and produced offspring.  These offspring are the giants of biblical lore, such as in David and Goliath, and were known for their inhumane tendencies.  God then punished the angels by sending the Archangels to lock them up in what is possibly the place that hell is now viewed as.  The children of the angels, the giants, were then given the task of tormenting and testing humankind until the end of times and due to God removing a giants' chance to do righteous they would be permitted into heaven free of charge.  So basically, Demons aren't necessarily evil in this sense, it is their job to 'torment' mankind.  This is a belief that is shared in other cultures but is only one possible explanation for them.  They could be tulpas, a manifestation of fears and ideas that are believed in so strongly that they become real.  Or perhaps they are people/ghosts/spirits who have been evil for so long that they know nothing else.  There are many things that must be defined before one can jump to any direct conclusion, ie what makes something evil or good for that matter.  I'm sure I will share my opinion on this in the future but I wont delve into it at this point.
The next question (not exactly in the same order as asked) was why do they target children.  This is an excellent question and I'm sure many parents out there would love to know the why in order to protect their offspring.  Well children are often times more psychically aware than older humans.  Some believe this is due to their lack of time in the physical and the fresh memory of the afterlife in their minds.  Others believe that this is due to human nature and as you grow older you are taught to 'close your eyes' to the world of the spiritual.  Either way, many psychics and occultists believe that majority of imaginary friends are more than just imagination and that kids can see, hear, touch, smell, and perhaps taste the 'unnatural' much more effectively than most adults.  So just being aware of these entities when they're around would increase their potency and their attention.  Think of it in this sense, if you pull a gun on a blind man and he doesn't hear anything that he relates to trouble, he has no idea that you are threatening his life.  Therefore you hold no power over his will.  The other reason children are often targeted is due to their lack of personal strength.  Like all ailments, the young, elderly, and ill are at higher risk of being harmed then a healthy, fit person in their prime years.  Some believe that the spirit only grows stronger with time so that frees the elderly from this weakness, however others believe that the strength of one's spirit is due to personal training and nothing else.  So children are more susceptible to spiritual attack due to their openness to the subject and their lack of spiritual (physical and mental) prowess.
Now I will address the last two questions together.  Why do crosses and holy water 'scare' them away and how do you rid yourself of these negative entities or any entities for that matter?  Well the use of crosses and holy water could be due to a long line of Christian exorcists, perhaps the cross and holy water are very familiar to these demons and they know the trouble that's coming.  A more wide believed reason for the effectiveness of these Christian relics is due to the power of the wielder and they could be substituted with anything.  It's the debate of psychodrama which is the 'new age' of metaphysics, quantum physics, and the Occult.  Basically, because you believe that the cross symbolizes the power of the Christ and God then it does.  The cross itself holds no esoteric power of it's own but you empower it.  So therefore I could give you my magical penny.  I tell you that this penny is very special, why it's magical in nature, it repels all evil entities.  You take the penny and you believe me because I'm convincing, or a nice guy, or what ever the reason.  So now you have your magic penny and you never encounter demonic activity.  Your friend comes to you and tells you he is suffering from what he believes to be a demon, haunting him every night.  So you tell him you'll go to his house and confront this demon for him because you have a magical penny.  Now the debate is whether or not the afflicted has to also believe in this magical penny's abilities or not.  Some say yes, some say no.  Either way, there seems to be greater success if the afflicted believes in your abilities as well.  So you go to the house, you confront the demon, you brandish your magical penny and the demon flees in fear.  It's no different then a cross.  So riding yourself of negative forces is very simple, so simple that it becomes complicated.  You must believe that they can't afflict you and they can't.  Many people have a hard time doing this so this is where prayers, holy objects, rituals and ceremonies come into play.  A very common procedure (with slight variations) is to walk around your house and imagine you forcing your will or energy into the very walls and floors and ceilings you're walking through.  Whether you feel any difference or not doesn't seem to matter, so pretend if you have to, it's just a means of getting your will to do the work for you.  So each wall you pass imagine an impenetrable barrier appearing where nothing with ill content can pass.  Draw a symbol, toss holy water, or waft a candle if it helps.  Due this all throughout your house, constantly reassuring yourself that you are building a protective barrier.  When you're done marvel at your work and presto, demon free.  To remove an evil spirit that is already there, all you have to do is command.  It's a battle of will power.  Tell it that you have authority over it and that it has no power over you or anyone for that matter.  Then tell it it must leave.  This could of course leave it free to haunt your neighbor or some other random house, but unfortunately there are no verifiable ways to truly destroy a demon.  I personally have done some exercises that have made it so that I have never heard from a certain spirit or entity again, but I can not say that they aren't just in a different location.
So all said and done, perhaps the research of and belief in demons are what truly empower them, and thus comes into play with your Pandora's Box analogy.  Knowledge truly is power but with power comes great responsibility.  Perhaps demons are no more than the corruption of knowledge.  I don't think that you will ever get an unanimous yes or no in the subject.  Demon possessions seem to go through cycles of popularity, often due to Hollywood's influence, but there are enough people who believe they've experienced in some sort of unexplainable phenomenon that appears to be 'human' in nature that the possibility of ghosts, spirits, and demons are definitely there.  Once again thank you for your time and I hope I haven't bombarded you with too much information at once.  As always, any comments, or additional questions are always welcomed and looked forward to.

Much Love,
Brandon

[juliainkc]

Hi Brandon,

It's okay. I have heard this before!

I'm sorry, I don't understand the way you worded your reply and I don't know what you were trying to communicate

Your sharing expands my view is what I am saying. Panorama. We did have a few responses to this and reading yours is interesting.

This is a subject that many have wondered and have spoken about in secret or in public like this. And like you I have had experiences in this genre although it happened in what seemed like the most unexpected ways at the time.

Fear is what seems to shroud this topic and in the previous posts it was shared how many do not realize the Power of the Mind to create these energies into entities, forms. A Pandora's box. We are powerful creators of our reality and just don't always realize how powerful our Minds are.

That is all I was saying in a nutshell ...

Thank you for sharing your interest and experiences in this topic Brandon,


Love radiating your way,

Julia

[Adrian]

Dear Brandon,

I would like to add a few comments to what is an interesting topic.

I estimate that 99% of so called "possessions" or attacks by "negative entities" are created by the Minds of humans - usually the person who believes themselves to be possessed.

The entities known as Demons do exist and must exist to maintain harmony - they can be considered to be the reciprocal of "Angels".

"Evil" does not exist except in the human Mind. Everything in the Universe in all spheres of Life and Reality is a Creation of Source, First Cause, God, and is therefore Perfect. Only the limited human Mind chooses to create a dichotomy in the interests of understanding and to apportion blame and cause where none exists.

No true "possession" can take place without permission first being granted to the possessing entity.

In Love and Light,

Adrian.
 

[Step1]

The entities known as Demons do exist and must exist to maintain harmony - they can be considered to be the reciprocal of "Angels".

"Evil" does not exist except in the human Mind. Everything in the Universe in all spheres of Life and Reality is a Creation of Source, First Cause, God, and is therefore Perfect. Only the limited human Mind chooses to create a dichotomy in the interests of understanding and to apportion blame and cause where none exists.

These two statements/paragraphs contradict one another. The first alludes to the law/principle of polarity( up and down, in and out, light and darkness, evil and benevolence). Your second statement, which smacks to me of Christian Scientist dogma, is denying this. Are your beliefs, ideas based on Mary Baker Eddy’s teachings? 

Evil equilibrates benevolence or whatever you want to call the polar opposite of evil. You couldn’t have a Osama Bin Laden without a Mother Teresa, a Pol Pot without A Francis of Assissi.

Certainly all the great teachings/books mention evil as real. The Torah and the Old Testament just to mention two. Zoroastrianism talks about the battle between good and evil  that is Ahura Mazda vs Ahriman. Zoroastrianism impacted the teachings of the Essenes so if Jesus studied with the Essenes as seems possible, the concept of evil was more than just a figment of someone’s imagination, and something that Christ grappled with.

[Adrian]

Dear Step1,

First of all I have no "beliefs" whatsoever - only absolute "knowings". "Belief", in the religious sense, implies following the doctrines of church - a system of belief.

Now let me see if I can un-contradict myself based upon your valid observations.

I see your point regarding Demons vis a vis Angels, but I think you are assuming that the Beings known as "Demons" are "evil" which they are most certainly not - they exist simply as an aspect of balance of the Whole.

Which brings me on to the second paragraph where I say that "evil" does not exist which is true, and what I am saying above.

In actual fact we should not even be talking in terms of "good" and/or "evil" at all or even Light and dark for that matter. I actually use both in the interests of understanding, because there are no words to describe what these states of Being actually represent.

The best description I can offer is that these are all "instruments of Experience" at this level of vibration - the physical level. These crude means of understanding become completely irrelevant once a certain level of Evolution through Experience has been attained.

The main issue is that people almost always treat these "opposites" as separate which they are not. The only exist in accordance with the perspective of the observer.

For example, by most people's definitions of "evil", one of the most "evil" entities that ever existed, if not the most "evil" is the Roman Catholic Church - the very institution that constantly punishes there congregation by expecting them to confess and atone for what most people regard as perfectly normal things. No entity has ever perpetrated such heinous crimes against God's Children as they.

The RC church exists only to control through fear and guilt - this has only ever been its intended purpose.  How many people, especially Catholics, would regard the RC church as "evil"? Especially when they hide behind a veil of purity through the concept of the "virgin Mary" and so on.

There are plenty of Roman Catholics out there who say I am evil - going to damnation in hell etc - but again, that is from their perspective.

But for all that the RC church is still an aspect of Source, God, and is therefore still perfect.

So you see there are no absolutes, it is all from the perspective of the observer, so it is really meaningless to talk in those terms although we must do so in the interests of understanding.

Ultimately what we are talking about are degrees of vibration, and how each relates to it, but reducing these questions to that level will not help too many people.

In Love and Light,

Adrian.

[TheBaron]

I agree with Adrian for the most part here.  I view 'Good' and 'Evil' as being subjective... or even states of being.  One is never truly good or evil, yet they possess the ability to do both right and wrong.  I'm jumping past the debate of morality to present my point here, but that is another very important debate as well, but I will use hypotheticals for the time being.  This is what I would like to call the Robin Hood theorem.  A man who steals is undoubtably morally wrong in his action, and yet he rectifies it by giving some or most of his possessions to the poor.  Now if the poor had something worth stealing would he then steal from the poor?  The act of stealing is bad but the act of giving is good, so then is Mr. Hood a 'good' or a 'bad' guy?  To the Judicial system of the King he is most certainly the bad guy in the story, but to the people who he helps he is the good.  To the soldier who he killed, harmed, maimed, or got reprimanded he is the bad guy.  The soldier/knight of the king whose job it is to protect the interests of the king may not agree with the king's agenda, however he is working to support his family until this devonare swashbuckler comes and takes that all away from him.  So then would that action not be 'evil?'  Some people viewed Hitler as a hero in his time and he helped some 'Aryans' increase their quality of life.  On the same note, a local hero police officer may save a baby from a car crash and then go home to beat his wife.  This world is full of oxymorons as such.  Now what I would consider an 'evil' entity would be one who has lost or forgotten the means in which to do good.  Whether they can be retaught is another debate all together that I'm not exactly sure about myself.  What is known, is that whether an outside force of evil is intruding your physical conscious or if you are doing the evil itself, it is a decision to be made.  Sometimes people don't realise that they're making a decision though, because sometimes not making a decision is just as much of one.  I chose not to help a person stranded on the side of the road in the middle of no where, my apathy would be viewed as some as an 'evil' or 'bad' event.  Once again I hope this has been insightful and these are wonderful points.

Much Love,

Brandon

[TheBaron]

I estimate that 99% of so called "possessions" or attacks by "negative entities" are created by the Minds of humans - usually the person who believes themselves to be possessed.

  I also wanted to make a comment on what Adrian stated here.  I can't personally verify the statistic but I would agree that vast majority of the 'extreme' cases of psychic attack is due to the victim.  There are many studies and experiments out there that talk about the poltergeist phenomena in specific.  It is believed that a poltergeist is created from the mind of an individual, usually a teen, and has nothing to do with outside forces.  In Michael Cuneo's book that I suggested earlier and similar studies it's the 'psychodrama' at work behind the scenes.  There are plenty of cases of people claiming to be possessed, the exorcist himself (or herself for that matter) doesn't believe the person is possessed but goes through with the exorcism anyway.  That person then shows symptoms or signs of demonic possession or what they believe to be the symptoms and when it's all done they're cured.  Did that person actually suffer from an attack of evil or was it just all in their head?  These are very interesting studies that really link Psychology with MetaPhysics and to most people the idea of the mental effecting the physical is not new at all.  Thanks again.

[juliainkc]

Hello Adrian, Brandon and Einstein (Step1) and All,

In reading through these thoughts just sharing here what comes to my mind in my observing the responses and I see we have a view of what one is 'seeing' as the conditions (outcome) that are the main focus of where the energy s going and also the view of the Cause of these 'phenomenas', the source of the Energy.

Conditions while generated from the Cause are not being seen from the same perspective. It is vibrational Energy levels being viewed from various perspectives of a particular experiencing.

So when focusing on the 'conditions' is it real? Well, yes it is in the moment when being experienced. It is a real experience to the one having it. And will continue if the Energy vibration is tuned into and fed. Focusing the Energy into the mental patterns.

When one is open to considering this, the conditions are able to be traced back to the Cause of the condition and this is where transformation of the Energy takes place.

Getting to the root or cause of the conditions.

Just sharing from my own perspective,

Love to All,

Julia

[TheBaron]

That is a very good observation Julia.  This is often the problem in the paranormal or spiritual world because there is no way to measure these occurrences other than through personal experience.  I've read some research on NDE, Near Death Experiences, and often times the people experience similar phenomena but it is slightly skewed.  The hypothesis that I read with these studies claimed that these differences were due to the individual's religious views.  Most often the people experience a tunnel of some sort with a light at the end, however in ancient times people reported a bridge either over water or over the abyss/hell itself.  In those times people believed in a physical bridge that connected the two worlds where as now it appears we are past that assumption and our 'bridge' is no more than a fanciful tunnel of light, such as in Ghost (the movie with Patrick Swayze).  However people still describe a light and the same emotional and 'physical' feelings.  They also usually report being able to look down on their body and see what is going on around them.  These individuals later recite the events with amazing clarity even though they were physically unconscious.  I think this also goes with some Universal Life views where there is a God but how you choose to reach your god or view your god differs from person to person, but that singular god still responds to the prayers of each different name, ritual, and individual.  So long story short, it appears that there is indeed a phenomena known as 'possession' and there is indeed a force we identify as 'evil.'  However there are still different theories and hypothesis for these encounters.  Thanks again for your input.

Much Love,
Brandon

[Adrian]

Dear Julia, Brandon et al,

There is another interesting perspective to this very interesting topic, and that is the "law".

Anywhere in the world if a person "breaks the law" they are considered to be "bad" and will be "punished", if someone is "good" then nothing happens of course.

The vast majority of people accept "good" and "bad" as defined by the "law". But who created the "laws" and for whose benefit?

For example - people who smoke "pot", "weed" etc are considered to be "bad", even though there are no consequences for anyone else.  But those who smoke tobacco or drink alcohol - both of which are unambiguously harmful to health are considered "good", because it is "legal" and can be purchased at the local supermarket.

Both alcohol and tobacco cost the taxpayer trillions of dollars worldwide each year due to the impact on health - trillions more is spent to treat people due to diet choices such as meat and dairy products.

How can this be?

Could it be that the tobacco and alcohol industries are so big and have so much influence with the legislators, and make so much money for the governments that they need people to keep on killing themselves?

Does that make people who smoke tobacco and drink alcohol good?

What about the legal drugs created to "treat" the latest diseases that keep "appearing". Could it be that the pharmaceutical industry need a continuous supply of ill people?

How about people that avoid tax through "tax planning". Where I live there are billions of dollars in banks avoiding Federal taxes. Good or bad?

Well the truth is that there is no provision in the American constitution that compels US citizens to pay tax at all - it is one of the best kept secrets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvIb83Yyx2c

If this is true - and it certainly seems to be, then this makes the non-taxpayers "good" and the IRS "bad" for extorting money from innocent people.

The Church is another example as I said before.

There are a billion Catholics in the world who allow the Pope to define "good" and "sins", the penalty for failing to atone for a "sin" being blocked from Heaven or being sent to "hell" when they pass on.

In western countries women can wear what they please, but in most of the Islamic countries women must hide their body completely, failing to do so, or worse looking at a man other than her husband is a grave "sin", very "bad". There was recently a case where a women was raped in a Muslim country - Iran I think it was. The rapist was set free with a caution but the women was found guilty of going with another man and sentenced to death by stoning.

And this is only the planet Earth.

There will almost certainly be Beings out there that make the darkest people on Earth look like saints by comparison.

So it is all relative. There is only one set of Laws - Principles - and they are Universal. It is not a punishment and reward system, it is a system of attaining Perfection through Experience - plain and simple - a system that has no regard for "laws" determined by humans for their own ends.

We should also understand that when a human makes a judgement, they do so based upon a temporal event relative to Earth time. What they cannot see is the infinite chain of causes and effects that extend to Source in one direction and infinity in the other, a chain that will comprise an equal number of "bad" and "good" elements so they ultimately balance as they must. It depends on the temporal moment the point in the chain is observed as to whether the event being observed is considered to be "good" or "bad" when it is neither - it simple Is.

As for true demonic possession - it is impossible to be possessed without invitation. I know of people that have been possessed by high ranking demons, but they were Magicians who got it wrong.

I know the names and seals of many of these powerful Beings, and until recently they were not even considered to be "demons" - in fact they actually help with the Evolution of humanity until some amateur Magician comes along, and decides to "summon" and "bind" one of these Beings without any idea of what they are really doing.

So at the final analysis "bag" and "good" or even "evil" arr all subjective, depending on the observer, and even then none of these really exist in the totally of Life.

In Love and Light,

Adrian.



 

[juliainkc]

Hello Dear Adrian, Brandon and All,

Thank you both for your responses. I agree from my perspective that it is about one's unique perceptions as I can see in reading both responses here and I see that we are agreeing while sharing in our unique way of expressing here the different views of an experience many have had at various levels and degrees.

Which is why  I did not use the terms 'evil' and 'good' or 'bad' here. As you share Adrian and I wholeheartedly agree, it simply IS. It is relative.

The Divine Laws - Principles are Universal and based on this understanding it is why I have shared that it is we who try to add or take away from them and we can observe the 'consequences', conditions or effects of such actions. There is nothing really 'needing' to be improved in the Divine Universal Order of things.  Recognizing this would change what we 'see' in an instant if we all saw this in this very moment simultaneously from all perspectives and not choosing one particular one as 'right' for another. IT all IS.

Which is why I also heartedly agree that it is not a system of punishment and rewards or judgement that leads to condemning another to death as in severing one's relationship with the Universal Father who created these Universal Laws for All and Every Being to abide within the Origin of these Principles which is Love without judgement of any other. Judging as in disapproving of another tends to lead to results due to conditions being placed on another and when one does not go along with an idea shared by another, if one feels 'unsupported' or lacking in their belief (conditional) they tend to drum up ways of 'righting' adding or subtracting it in their minds to bring a sense of balance or harmony. An off with their heads moment so to speak. More or less.

It is impossible to be 'possessed' without invitation or permission (willingly giving one's power away) and this is something I agree with you as well whether we are speaking of demons or people or any kind of energy being including our Self possession. No one can possess another unless one believes one can. Their freedom lies in knowing without a doubt whom One is in posssesion of ... One Self


I am speaking of whether one recogizes the Innate Supreme Source of One's Power being Present within or 'thinking' it is outside of them Self by projecting it as thus.

Hosting the I AM or seeing it as one not being invited into knowing OneSelf by seeking it in other places. Also known as I Go or Ego (symbols switching moment) ...

Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts along with yours.

Love's Powerful Energy radiating your way,

Julia

[juliainkc]

Host of GOD or hostage to ...