Demonic Possessions

[Leslie]

I've been watching quite a bit of entertaining shows surrounding demonic possessions and am having a hard time understanding how it fits into my new vision of reality. I'm curious to know everyone's opinions on the subject or any experiences they've had.

Are demons real? What purpose do they serve/Why are they here? How can a cross and holy water 'scare' them away? How do people rid themselves of this negative energy? Why are children so often the victims of a possession?

I have oodles of questions on the subject--but will start with those.
Thanks!
Leslie

[melody]

Hello Leslie,

You raised a very interesting topic. I really am not an expert on this subject, but since nobody had answered your post as yet, I can suggest you listen to this videos – they are really only audios, and see what the Bible sais about demons or the demonic possession.  There are also examples discussed of the exercising the demons.

Doctrine of the Demons-Dr Walter Martin
(Part 1) http://youtube.com/watch?v=uEF_1qztyOM
(Part 2) http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9pmOxgBcY
(Part 3) http://youtube.com/watch?v=dM_1JmZCTg0
(Part 4) http://youtube.com/watch?v=b5NURg8i9Zs
(Part 5) http://youtube.com/watch?v=xi__ESIRhns

[zensunni7]

Dear Leslie,

What you believe is real.

Most parents impress their beliefs on children. Many of the cases of child demonic possession there is a parent holding the Bible preaching and pounding words of the Devil and his demons.
The ritual and the tools for it must fit the scenario. Hence the Holy water, crosses and exorcism ritual. The ceremony cancels the belief, not a demon.
It is said ' the greatest trick the devil ever played, was convincing the world he did not exist ' The Church's was convincing the world he did.

Children are not stupid, but hold a deep belief they must make the parent happy and to do so , must live up to their expectations of them. Children also know they cannot survive without the support of a parent.

People rid themselves of this negative energy by ceasing to believe it. All ceremony is the ritual of changing or dispelling a belief.
Before it gets sighted here - Yes, Jesus did rid a man of demons according to Bible scripture. Being possessed was the mans beliefs and Jesus' words were the power to make him believe he was unpossessed.
Many ' ministers ' preform miracles everyday on stages called churches, curing the sick, making the maimed walk, the blind see - yaddi - yaddi. Simple follow up has shown ninety percent of them return to the same state within a few weeks after the ' miracle ' because it was all about believing the minister could heal them, and then within a few weeks they return to their previous state of mind / belief.

The Bible has a lot to say about demons - tis true enough - but it was also written and compiled in a time and era of extreme ignorance, legend and mythology. It was also criticized greatly by one of their own - Jesus, for being manipulative and deliberately controlling people by misguided beliefs that served themselves.
Bible oriented people are generally telling others what the Bible means, and what they should believe.
Use your own mind - it is more powerful than the Bible or any demon.

WithIn Love
Darrell

[melody]

It is interesting to note, that it is not only Christianity that speaks about spirit or demon possession but this also apply to shamanic cultures, where a shaman would be the one to exorcise the possessing spirit or spirits from an individual. And such independent shamanic cultures are found around the globe: Siberia, Africa, America - American-Indian.

[melody]

The Bible has a lot to say about demons - tis true enough - but it was also written and compiled in a time and era of extreme ignorance, legend and mythology. It was also criticized greatly by one of their own - Jesus, for being manipulative and deliberately controlling people by misguided beliefs that served themselves.

Hello Zensunni7,

I am quite aware that Jesus criticized the hypocrisy of the synagogue establishment and the rabbis’ for preaching one thing and doing another. I am not aware though that anywhere in the New Testament it is stated that Jesus actually talked against Old Testament and the teachings of God therein. Could you please quote such instances, or at least one of them.

[juliainkc]

Good Morning Leslie, Melody and Darrell,

Leslie, it may be that the reason this wasn't responded to is because we have already discussed things similar in nature in another post here. I believe it was in Our Ultimate Reality forums under True Magic.

I wish to share that I do resonate with Darrell's response and at one time I understood these things from Melody's position.

I can only indicate where I am in the group photo here.

In this physical reality, it is very difficult to understand and perhaps believe that we are creating everything we see and experience with our minds and it is manifesting as physical matter. Everything seems so 'real' and solid. The more I believe it is real, the more I become 'attached' to it. Once the realization presents itself that there is more to it than I can physically see, it is a process of unlearning and undoing of the 'particles' that create the facade.

While I have admitted (I am reluctant to give alot of details) to having been through some interesting experiences in this particular arena, I was made aware before hand that it is the focus of belief and what power I am giving to the belief that is creating the 'seeming' demons and seeing it in another.

The methods that have been used are in my honest opinion, much like meeting one at the door of their current experience.

As Darrell states and I agree, parents do influence a child and the child does depend solely on the parent for survival because this thought is constantly reinforced in this world's thinking. It would be far a different experience of this reality if we were all allowed to embrace our natural Being and abilities and attributes.

That said, these methods are used to meet the level of the mind's ability to accept healing in the moment. And from there, one can progress into one's natural state of wellness which is a constant but again we tend to focus on the physical means and methods of life first. A backwards or outer view. Healing medicine is used to treat symptoms in people and people have and do heal from it because it is acceptable to the mind that is creating the illness.

Jesus used forgiveness as the healing agent for well being. Removing the barriers that keeps one from their natural state of being One with the Father.

Since the Bible is being used here. In circumstances such as these and all others we create in the mind, one scripture I have found helpful to consider along with all Holy paths is this:

"If God be for us, who then can be against us?" 

Choice. Which voice are we listening to? The one that says we are separate from our God of Origin which leads to fear and creates a false sense of guilt and trying to fix it. Or the Voice that says, as Jesus said and exampled through his whole ministry that we are One with God, with the Source of All Living.

We may be able to measure things in this reality, has anyone ever been able to measure the Source of this energy? That's the Power that is indwelling in us if we remember this.

The Mind is a very powerful thing and ego mind which has falsely separated itself from its Source has had plenty of opportunity to be a master of distraction. As Solomon said, there is nothing new under the sun.

Can a sunbeam be separate from the Center from which it comes? Demonic possesions are manifestations of a mind gone awry.

Just sharing out loud with you and all,

Within the Powerful Unity of Love,

Julia

[zensunni7]

Greetings Dear one and All,

I cannot quote Bible verses - I have read it a lot, but committing lines to memory is not an interest I ever possessed. Jesus spoke as a child in the temple, and angered the Rabbi's by reinterpreting the Torah away from their teachings of it. His entire ministry was based on a new interpretation of the Torah. Jesus I believe was more interested in the Book of Enoch than the Torah, and the Hebrew version of Gods knowledge, the Kabbalah. Hebrew and Jewish history are not truly the same history.
Jesus may have been Jewish lineage, but his spirituality and teaching are much more attuned to ancient Hebrew beliefs, and other spiritual teachings than Jewish.

It is interesting that almost all ancient cultures refer to demons - but we are time tripping to ' primitive ' cultures, where only the very elite were at all educated or well read. To a time when education of the masses was a thing of legends, myth, and stories with ' truth ' peppered into the myth. Jesus understood the principles of energy as we do now, and also the idea that all of us have the powers he exhibited, he was no stranger to metaphysics and its practical application. Yet, he also understood the masses level of education and understanding was best served by parables, than lectures on energy and its relation to Human evolvement and behaviors. He taught the Power of Love, and that God is Love because it would - then - have the same result as the Secret is having now. He knew the theory of quantum physics, but also knew how to express it in a way that would touch the heart, and grow within the person and the race.
He also knew and cautioned against intellectual debates of tit for tat Scriptural debates, as the diversions they are. Intellect and mind are not the same thing, intellect is but one function of the mind, as the Bible is but one book of " God's revelation of Self. I see his message in this ideal as simply - if you do not apply heart and feeling to this, you'll be a scholar of impotent information. Just as the Rabbinical's of his day were and many religions of present. They know the price of a Bible, but not the value of it. They read it, quote it, memorize it, and can navigate all the cross references, yet feel none of its content, and the real " Word of God " cannot be known any other way.

Energy and God are interchangeable in this new era of understanding,yet God is source of energy, God being undefinable, as all scripture form all places, cultures, and time agree upon. So I do not waste my energy / spirit seeking definition of the undefinable. Science seeks definition of Source, and they will be seeking it long after Earth is but a mythology from an ancient primitive past.

Yet we are redefining our understanding of energy now. Because we have used energy for many things since time began, it does not mean we have not been very remiss in not recognizing it as a life form, with the ability of knowing us and us it with feeling and respect given to other life forms. Twenty years ago light was a ' thing ' now it is a life form in the eyes of science, with its own DNA and able to communicate with our atoms. SO God and energy are alive, as we are.
Meditation and solemn prayer reveal this to us, and science now allows us to see it.
It is where Einstein and Jesus embrace in the joy of their sameness.

Demons are self created as is the state of possession, even the shamans recognize this and devised their ritual with this in mind knowing the primitive mind would not accept release without ceremony and ritual, this understanding was what made them shamans and set apart from the others in the village.
My grandmother use to refer to a bad mood as being in bad spirit, and addressed it by shifting my thinking to  more positive thoughts. Same principle. Demons are negative thoughts allowed to grow and fed by angry energies.


WithIn Love

Darrell

[melody]

Hello Zensunni7,

It was great of you to express your opinion. We all, I guess, have many individuated opinions, Bible being one of them.

I am not sure that the shamanic cultures were primitive. Technologically, yes. But in the realm of natural realities, acquired when one lives inside and as being one with nature, commuting with nature, I think their understanding of natural realities might have been much sharper than ours, since we are completely cushioned from nature and its energies.

If ghosts and spirits exist in the spirit world and can be even visible on occasions and even communicate with us, and channel knowledge to people, maybe lesser benevolent spirits exist as well, and are only happy to be controlling.

As for Jesus, was he the most interested in the Book of Enoch? It is good that you have such an opinion, but we could never really know for sure...

[zensunni7]

Dearest Melody,

Thank you for allowing me to express my opinions, or more accurately - my heart.

WithIN Love

Darrell

[melody]

Hello Zensunni7,

It is not really for me to allow... 

[zensunni7]

WHOOSH -

Yeah - its like that.

WithIn Love

Darrell

[melody]

Zensunni7,

         

[zensunni7]

Dearest All,

Lets throw it down, this Jesus thing, and see what is there when the mist clears.
We all talk of speaking our truth here, and we seem to do a sweet job of it, even if we stand in disagreement.
Melody. although you seem extremely intelligent, well read and ready for any arena, your insistence to return all to the Bible bringing as many converts as you can leaves me in dismay.
With all due respect - sincerely meant - you also remind of Rapunzel locked in her head pining out the only window at her heart down below running freely and beckoning you come and play, but you have been in the tower so long, you would not walk out the door.
Jesus - be he a real historical figure, or a mythology, stands as the most powerful influence of Humanity in the last two thousand years. And yes, we can know him in all senses of the words and e-motions. You can know him as you do your best friend.
The blockage lies in wanting to know ' about '  Jesus, and knowing him, and once you experience this difference, his historical reality falls to irrelevance.
We all here ponder - discuss and debate knowing God, Source, Universe, what it means to Be Human, and in the end we will succumb to the ravenous desire to experience these and abandon any other desire we may have at the moment for knowledge of them.
Speak my truth here, I cannot, because it is in a constant state of experiential  change.I can tell you I know of Jesus reading the Book of Enoch, the Kabbalah, and being well versed in sciences of Human and divine knowledge from an internal source of my Self.
We say we are all connected, all one, and this is the result of that belief. Christian mystics call it being Christed, there are a thousand terms for this, but this is the goal - is it not?
Or would it be preferred to say I channel this from a deity? Intuitive knowledge is experienced, felt, and begs credibility of its own, not just when in agreement with scripture. That is surrender.
Jesus is a word bigger than ourselves, forcing us to focus on ourselves as bigger than what we perceive ourselves to be. I cannot know the Universe from the tower of selfish individuality. Nor can we know the vastness of energy from a single book. We cannot know these things without joining with them and allowing them to join with us.

We say we need to be of service to the world, and what better service than to release the vaults of knowledge within us.We are the lost Ark, the lost Hall of records, the lost tribes, we are all the mysteries we seek so fervently and the answers. Self contained, self evolving, and self revealing.


WithIn Love

Darrell

[juliainkc]

Good Morning Darrell and All,

Self contained, self evolving, and self revealing.

Wouldn't change one thing you've shared in this post from the Heart Led Intelligence of your Being.

Excellent Darrell. Namaste.

Love WithIn Divine Spirit,

Julia

[zensunni7]

Dear one and all -

On this ' journey ' I have read a lot, and i mean A LOT - it didn't make me wise at all, just well read and filled with others thoughts, ideas and ideals. I was haunted as I read into the many nights by the verse " The Holy Spirit will cause you to REMEMBER "
Not learn, become wise, educated - but re-member, as in re-member to from its original translation.
I could read a thousand page book and walk away with only a few chapters I could truly feel in my heart and soul. The common denominator of the Holy books this race worships is that they can be understood anyway the readers need them to. Some Muslims can read their book and see love for fellow humans, others - that all others need to be killed or converted. Christians kill by isolating all those that do not believe as they do. Don't believe - but your going to hell Bob.

" Believers " regardless of what one is believing, do not like their feathers ruffled by another book that may discount their ideal of God. I began my journey as a Christian, fearing God wrath, loving Jesus, because he was my ' get out of hell ' card.
Along the way of reading I began to feel in texts what was real, what was opinion, and what was filler by those that interpreted the texts. Reading would begin an internal stream of thoughts, ideas and imagery within me from a source within me. The ' re-membering to ' or awakening.
We do not want to see things from a deep past interfere with with scriptures of a later date, to hear the words of our Lord and Savior in a text that pre-dates the Bibles time tables. But they exist.
Reading the Book of Enoch, I read the words Jesus taught. Nubian manuscripts contain the original ten commandments almost word for word in their twenty one commandments written by someone referred to as simply ' The Prince ' almost three thousand years before Moses was given them in the burning bush. Egypt's Book of Life also contains them,far predating Moses also.
Recent archeology in Egypt also throws great doubts into the claim Jews were slaves in Egypt, but rather contracted workers as many others. Massive slave populations were a huge burden on empires and an extreme drain on their resources and this reality was widely known throughout history. It did not pay to make slaves do your work, it was counter productive and weakened the empire.
The apostle Paul's original scriptures reveal he rarely - if ever - finished a text, some were even stopped in mid sentence, thoughts left undone and incomplete. They were finished for him.

We see many of our illusions broken and desires for things to be a certain way changed by undeniability along the ' path ' of our enlightenment. Some even brought me to tears of anger and sadness, feeling the fool of my beliefs.
But the journey took its quantum leap when I stood alone in this and was forced to see where I had to go for the truth - into myself. I had to trust what was flowing from within me. Science calls this process cellular awakening, the lighting up of cells that have stored memories in us since the creation of our blood lines. Spiritual teachers call it enlightenment. We read more to remember than to learn, to awaken more than acquire wisdom. Enlightenment, especially as we discuss it here, is a spiritual and biological process of awakening.
I love the ideal of Jesus, but to spend my life seeking his historical validation is not of any concern to me. If I am seeking be as Jesus, I am not seeking to be as my Self, and he would be the first to tell me so, based on his ideals and values. The world does not need one Christ - it needs millions.
Belief in only one person achieving God consciousness is self imposed slavery and the absolute antithesis of Jesus teachings.

WithIn Love

Darrell